EJ25 Into L Series

Psymon · Post by **Psymon** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:06 pm

Hey guys.

Like most L series owners, the EA82 just doesn't satisfy me! Plus the constant lifter noise is almost unbearable. So for a while now i've been toying with the idea of an EJ swap. Now the plan was just to go down the tried and tested EJ22 route, but the wreckers in my general area well selling them for between $770 and $1600 for engine alone! No ecu, no wiring loom, no exhaust!

Long story short, a friend of mine with a 98 model Liberty heritage is replacing his EJ25 with an EJ20TT and he said i could have engine, ecu, loom and anything else i needed for $400. This sounded like a pretty good deal to me!

So what i'd like to know, is how much harder would it be to use this engine as opposed to the EJ22? I'd like to keep my EA82 dual range box for now, so obviously i'd need the adaptor plate. The EJ25 is DOHC as opposed to the EJ22 being SOHC, will this cause any clearance issues?

Basically is there any issues i'd run into with the EJ25 that i wouldn't with the EJ22?

Your help is much appreciated guys!

Simon

L-BJ · Post by **L-BJ** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:09 pm

There were some SOHC EJ25s (but me thinks they were only in Outbacks) but most were DOHC EJ25s. The first gen in Outbacks had internal leak head gasket issues (biatch to diagnose, and $$$ to fix) then they say they had external leak issues which were easyier to diagnose and could be fix with an additive. Subaru have updated the part # for the EJ25 head gasket numerous times (up to 8 times one mechanic told me) without accepting there was an issue >>>> check out http://users.sisna.com/ignatius/subaru/headgasket.html for a bit more comprehensive run down...... this is why people go down the EJ22 route = bulleitproof, but if you're confident the head gasket has been done then go for it.

90brumby · Post by **90brumby** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:26 pm

u can do it n it does fit in the l series but if u dont look after the gbox it wont last n that is a really gwd price

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:37 pm

Get someone who knows how to reset the cam belt tensioners , a good chance the "lifter chatter" will vanish .

A .

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:00 pm

A dead quiet EA82 is still totally unsatisfying unless you are a grandpa.

EJ25 dohc has no clearance issues at all in an L series.
That is a really good price from your mate there.
No I don't think you will have any issues going EJ25 over EJ22 that I can think of, just a little more power and torque to shred your front tyres up on the road

oh yeh - I think the wiring diagrams (ecu pinouts) for 25's are a little harder to find, you will need those when cutting down the wiring loom or at least your auto sparky will. Shouldn't be much of an issue.

I say do it! EJ in an L series - you won't look back! (except to see EA82 owners trying to keep up!).

Psymon · Post by **Psymon** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:56 am

Thanks for the replies guys!

Yeah i'm aware i'll have to take it easy on the gearbox but that shouldn't be a problem.

Wiring shouldn't be too bad but i've noticed there's a few guys who have put a 25 into an L series before so if worse comes to worse there's surely someone who can point me in the right direction!

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:59 am

I say do it! EJ in an L series - you won't look back! ("except to see EA82 owners trying to keep up!").

Hmmm , we'll see about that !
A .

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:31 am

Lol looking forward to it. Was mostly referring to n/a EA82s but post your quarter mile times anyway

subybrumby · Post by **subybrumby** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:53 am

If you don't take the motor at that price, I'm sure that there are others that will. I've been watching prices for a while and that is cheap. There are some cheap EJs around but either they are not complete or need rebuilding.

Psymon · Post by **Psymon** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:26 pm

subybrumby wrote:If you don't take the motor at that price, I'm sure that there are others that will. I've been watching prices for a while and that is cheap. There are some cheap EJs around but either they are not complete or need rebuilding.

Yeah i'll definately take it. Just wanted to make sure i didn't buy the engine only to find that it won't find without cutting half the front end off! :P

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:09 pm

If you want to do the EJ25 properly RX style brakes are not really going to be good enough so you probably want to factor in a CrossBred conversion and Liberty brakes .
I'd also look into one of the AWD gearboxes like an early dual range one .

The killer is always the cost and it may make an early Lib DR AWD wagon a more cost effective proposition .
An EJ25 falls into those and you get DR AWD and 5 stud hubs out of the box . Rex brakes bolt on and all you need is caliper extensions to use the later larger Rex rear brakes .

Libs are a fair bit more modern platform than an L Series and the good bits for them are common and relatively cheap .
So much less work to do when the factory has done most of it for you .

BTW what are the performance figures for an EJ25 , if its under 200 horses its doable with an EA82T but rather expensive .
The best Rally EA82Ts of the late 80s were cranking out 190 odd with the std smegfull header and agricultural MPFI L inlet manifold , only slightly better than std turbo and low CR and no intercooling .
With all the goodies and todays higher octane pump fuel you could have that and more in a street drivable car .

A .

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 7:27 pm

The brakes you need don't have really a direct relation to the engine power your car has. More your driving style - such as if you are a late braker or not. Naturally this is more likely to be the case in "spirited" driving with more powerful cars.
My opinion is that L series brakes (if in good condition) are perfectly fine for any EJ converted L series with the exception of EJ20turbo and up - you should really consider a Crossbred kit for this but even then it's not entirely necessary if you are a careful driver.

Crossbred conversion for a non turbo EJ25 L series would be total overkill - but of course, better.

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:56 am

Let me draw up a hypothetical scenerio where some unsuspecting person needs to drive the suggested EJ25 powered FrWD L Series .
There's a good chance they won't have any idea that the brakes are not up to scratch for the performance it would then have .
Do you want to risk having someones blood on your hands ?

The facts are that people doing rego inspections (in NSW anyway) know that EJs don't come std in Ls and it aint rocket science working out that 13" wheels don't house adequate brakes for them .

Also remember that not everyone who surfs the net has the foresight or maturity to do the right thing with car mods .
In my opinion its highly irresponsible to suggest that anyone give a road registered and driven vehicle a significant performance increase and not do anything with its factory brake equipment .
The whole purpose of having more power is to use it otherwise why would anyone spent the time and money to get it .

The std brake specs are 242 x 18mm front discs - 9.53 x 0.71" .
With L RX gearing you are in theory doing the "tonne" in 5th at a little under 5000 engine revs . It's not hard to imagine a rev head actually doing it and courting disaster .
At least Subaru did the right thing with the ER27 powered XT6 which had roughly 1st gen Lib sized discs and a bigger bore master cylinder .

Anyway , run it past a mechanical engineer and if they laugh at you you'll know why .
Also should an illegally modified vehicle be proven to have contributed to injury or death the owner and modifier will be off to the big house at her magesties pleasure for a looooong time .

Psymon · Post by **Psymon** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:22 am

Well my L series is really just used to drive me to work and back (less than a km away) and some off roading on the weekend. I have no need to drive it quickly... if i want to drive fast i'll get my skyline out of the garage! :P

Having said that... if i do the engine swap and take it out for it's maiden voyage only to find the brakes aren't up to scratch, then i'll sit down and work out the best plan of attack. Maybe a rear disc conversion, good quality pads and slotted rotors all round will bring the brakes up to scratch for what the car is going to be used for. But by no means is it going to be driven fast!

My EA82 has had a long life but i think it's time for it to go! It barely had enough torque to pull the car up a fairly moderate incline yesterday when i took it out for some 4wd'ing. Also it runs like a pig first thing in the morning. So rather tahn mess around with it, I'll just put the EJ25. Then i'll have the extra torque i want, and a relitavely modern fuel injected engine which will play nice in the morning!

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:11 am

Yeah, once again, engine power isn't *directly* related to the braking power you need. It's how you drive. Use the EJ25 to accelerate your car up to a reasonable speed just like you would with the EA82, you just reach the speed (ie 80km/h in an 80 zone) sooner than you normally would. Now you need to start slowing down because a corner or stop sign is coming up, well you are still going the same speed as you normally would so no problem to use the same brakes as you normally would.

Now, if you are going to be hooning around the streets like a moron and braking at the last second, or taking your car on a race track, then you should put some over sized brakes on for sure.

Also if you plan on going EJ20turbo or higher, you obviously intend on doing similar driving to that too, so it's also a good idea to go for over sized brakes.

But in YOUR situation........big brakes = expensive, unnecessary...overkill.

It's unlikely your "going to have somebody's blood on your hands" thats just a ridiculous exaggeration.

Nobody is going to laugh at you when driving the car if your standard brakes are in good condition. If working properly they will pull the car up perfectly fine. EJ's without a turbo aren't some kind of mysterious 1billion horsepower jet engine anyway. Everybody knows that the EA82 is a ridiculously underpowered heap of crap - an n/a EJ is good for balancing things out.

Anyway, obviously this is just my opinion. But it is based on years of actual experience driving L series cars with EA82s and EJ engines.

My advice is when doing your conversion, overhaul your brakes and front end components at the same time, something like;
- New front disc rotors
- New pads (consider performance pads, these can make a reasonably good difference)
- Consider overhauling the master cylinder and calipers with new seal kits
- Consider upgrading the master cylinder to a 1" Liberty unit and fitting a Liberty brake booster, this is a very cheap and very easy thing to do which will improve the braking, not a great deal but still an improvement.
- Get new ball joints
- Make sure your steering is in good condition, replace rack ends and tierod ends if they need it
- Consider getting new front shockies if needed, they help keep the wheels in contact with the road and make braking more effective.

Disco are you getting a Crossbred kit to go with your insanely powerful EA82turbo?

Post by **Alex** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:39 am

i am still running the standard l-series brake setup with ej20turbo.

strait after the conversion i invested in some brand new rotors and very expensive ferodo performance pads. The car pulls up WAY better than before and i have more than enough braking power for the 20g. Theres never been a situation where i think to myself 'gee i need to stop abit quicker'

alex

Matatak · Post by **Matatak** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:40 pm

Keffa wrote:i am still running the standard l-series brake setup with ej20turbo.

strait after the conversion i invested in some brand new rotors and very expensive ferodo performance pads. The car pulls up WAY better than before and i have more than enough braking power for the 20g. Theres never been a situation where i think to myself 'gee i need to stop abit quicker'

alex

Until they start to fade......

Post by **Alex** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:22 pm

Matatak wrote:Until they start to fade......

that was with the old pads and rotors. they still do fade like all brakes do, but not as badly.

alex

Matatak · Post by **Matatak** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:47 pm

Keffa wrote:that was with the old pads and rotors. they still do fade like all brakes do, but not as badly.

alex

lol, you do know what im talking about though

SCOOBIDOO · Post by **SCOOBIDOO** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:00 pm

The reason the smaller brakes are ok for the ea is because it take,s a long time (usually 1 month) to get back up to a speed where you need to brake again....Baaaahahaha
EJ IT ASAP......