Certification for fitting EJ22 or EJ25 to L-series

subalex · Post by **subalex** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:47 pm

I'm looking at a really good price for all I need for an EJ20 (non-turbo) engine but I've got to ask this question before ruling out a 2.2 or 2.5 litre engine. As you know, I have the 27" tyres and am running 3.7 diffs. That means I need some more torque from stand start, especially when laden with the camping gear and kids.

I don't want to run a turbo EJ20, it's looking like biting off more than I can chew and a few more parts to get before doing the job (more dosh too). I'm looking for a good upgrade in power that isn't going to lead to all the other bits wearing out faster, bending or breaking under too much torque... I'd do all those if I had a turbo so I'm only considering NA engines.

My research finds that we, in NSW, can increase the size of the engine by up to 15% without need for any certification. So, from a 1.8 to 2.0 that's within the limit and I save myself hundreds of dollars in the form of having an engineer going over it. Oddly, this limit allows turbos as well, crazy I know... so I'm sure that's why so many go for this instead nowadays.

So, going for a EJ22 or EJ25.... what 'certification' would I need to get? Secondly, how much dosh does that cost? What can I say, I have 5 kids so I'm not a wealthy man and have to make an application with the budget controller (make lots of promises to my wife) before a cent goes out.

lovey80 · Post by **lovey80** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:01 am

Although I am in QLD I will be watching this thread with interest. Where you said the limmit allows turbo's do you mean you interpret the rules as saying that a EJ20T would technically be allowed but not a NA EJ25 without an engineers certificate? Mine is for a MY Brumby but the info is still relevant.

Cheers

Chris

subalex · Post by **subalex** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:43 am

That's exactly how I understand it to read. You can go a single or even a twin turbo 2.0 engine but as soon as you go over the 15% capacity increase to a 2.2 or 2.5 litre engine you need certification. Thanks to there being a turbo L-series that went into production we can swap our carby EA82 to a turbo EA82 no prob's. At 1.8 litres capacity, the EA82 is within reach for being bumped up to 2.0 litres.. ie EJ20 with no problems since that is less than a 15% increase in capacity, turbo or non-turbo.

If I'm wrong then that's what I'm asking here in this thread along with what certification is necessary to keep an insurance company happy. Personally I'd love the power of a 2.5 turbo but don't think I'd enjoy it in my lifted L-series wagon... I'll get a Forester XT some day maybe but until then, the power to weight ratio with a 2.2 or 2.5 N/A engine really appeals to me considering the low down torque is what we need with these big tyres.

OKsubaru · Post by **OKsubaru** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:10 am

I recall reading somewhere that all turbo installed to normally non turbo cars for NSW RTA disc brake rear is required - the answer to your inital question of whether a certificate is required for turbo engine of capacity under the 15% increase capacity _ I do not know. I do believe it is primarily an emissions and exhaust noise levels that are the NSW RTA concern that need testing to satisfy laws they are responsible for governing, not the fact that you wish a hairdrier to assist .I have plans to call the RTA emission test facilty at Botany or Penrith ph 137247

** there goes my plans, they are out. I confess I have been dreaming of a turbo for my wagon when the money comes in, or just an increase to 2.0 litre to comply without engineer certificate. so lots of research and questions still to follow

"without any certification" is incorrect you will find - it is classed however as an owner certified modification for NSW RTA

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:18 pm

Well, I know in Vic that the turbo EJ20 has to be engineered as there's a "clause" that adds on the power upgrade on top of the 15% increase in capacity. Its all very open to interpretation as it states something along the lines of "similar size and power output" - something that the turbo motor does not fit into (to me)...

I hope you get it sorted without a wad of cash involved. I too will be watching this thread.

All the best mate.

Bennie

lovey80 · Post by **lovey80** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:53 am

Provided that everything is done to satisfy the engineer how much do the certificates usually cost?

Cheers

Chris

L-Raiser · Post by **L-Raiser** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:33 am

lovey80 wrote:Provided that everything is done to satisfy the engineer how much do the certificates usually cost?

Cheers

Chris

Over here in WA Ive been quoted $700-$900 for an engineer's certificate. Which does not include the costs to book a testing ground facility.

Im putting in an EJ25 2004 plus the D/R AWD box as well as a 2" lift in my L-Series.

I am still yet to do this in 2009 sometime....

L-Raiser

lovey80 · Post by **lovey80** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:23 am

700-900 Bucks hmmmm I think an EJ20 is looking better by the day.

fredsub · Post by **fredsub** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:39 am

changing to na to any turbo will require a Eng. cert, they're much tighter these days,and its harder to find a mech to not look too closely these days for the annual rego check,
back in '95 just got a blue slip for the ole ea82t, maybe just as well i don't have it anymore.
If you have aftermarket ECU they will certainly send you for an emissions test too - more cost$.

I thinks a EJ20 would be just perfect for a L series, maybe rebuilt with oversize pistons?

Storm · Post by **Storm** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:49 pm

subalex wrote:My research finds that we, in NSW, can increase the size of the engine by up to 15% without need for any certification. So, from a 1.8 to 2.0 that's within the limit and I save myself hundreds of dollars in the form of having an engineer going over it. Oddly, this limit allows turbos as well, crazy I know... so I'm sure that's why so many go for this instead nowadays.

Last time I checked the regulations they were alot more complicated than just 15% Engine size increase. There is a weight ratio involved in lighter cars so Brumbys may be adversely affected by the regulations compared to an MY or L wagon. You also have breaking requirements to consider.

As for Turbos they are not under the same ratios simply because the RTA deems a turbo engine has a higher capacity potential compared to naturally aspirated. For example a 2 litre turbo engine running at 15PSI will be deemed to be the same as a naturally aspirated 4 litre engine.

OKsubaru · Post by **OKsubaru** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:59 am

I have found out the weight thing also Storm, for NSW RTA anyway although not sure yet how it is interpreted but it is 1100kg for 4cylinders and rotary engined originals, so it looks to be a power to weight issue. Just how heavy is the touring wagon L compared to other body styles I wonder in the L series run? Maybe the extra weight of the EA82T would be just over 100kg ?

The EA82T and EJ22 has similar torque value, not sure of EJ20

Storm · Post by **Storm** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 1:48 pm

This is the VSI information for basic vehicle modifications.

subalex · Post by **subalex** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 8:50 pm

An interesting read there... however, right there underneath the table showing how to calculate the maximum size engine it says that it doesn't apply to 4WD's, light trucks etc under 4.5 tonnes... so that includes our little Subies. That means that there is another page that relates to modifications ok for 4WD's and Light Trucks under 4.5 Tonnes. Where's that page? I've seen it before too.

All the rest of that read was still very interesting: meaning... I don't see much wrong with the body lifts except the front crossmember that we use don't include welding in a section inside the hollow chassis rails to stop it from being crushed when tightening up the bolts.

Storm · Post by **Storm** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 6:48 am

The 4wd thing is up for interpretation. You need to remember the majority of Subarus are passenger vehicles and even the Brumby is a passenger derivative. It is the same thing for Holden and Ford Panelvans, they are passenger car derivatives so are under the exact same laws and classifications as passenger vehicles.

Before you do anything consult a knowledgeable engineering signatory.

OKsubaru · Post by **OKsubaru** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:59 pm

I do recall that the Brumby is regarded as a light truck on their compliance plate. An enquiry to RTA may find there is reason to modify a light truck as opposed to the wagons of the day, possibly a technical hitch or loop hole.

Can someone confirm Brumby is a light truck on compliance plate before i go off on a weird tangent, and also what is on the compliance plate of a Brumby shape wagon ?

Storm · Post by **Storm** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:31 pm

Light trucks have a separate chassis, Subies are Monocoque. Holden 1 Tonners are complianced as a light truck to but they are still passenger derivatives. Better to be safe than sorry, go as far as you can go as a passenger car and if you are determined to go for a "commercial" classification get the verification in writing by the RTA.

tex · Post by **tex** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:00 am

A freind when he did up his holden one tonner went through a lot of this rubbish when he put in a 350 as his complience plate showed it as a WB and although earlier models came out with the same engine he had to get his engineered and a weigh bridge certificate etc!

There are different rules depending on the age of the vehicle e.g. seatbelts in old holdens fords vw's etc. Worth looking into but what I have found most commonly lately is it is up to the individuals interpretation, One person will say no way and the next will say sure why not!

subarutility · Post by **subarutility** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:43 pm

A Brumby in the ACT is regarded as a light truck, not sure about NSW

subalex · Post by **subalex** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:40 pm

Ok then, does anyone know how the L-series would be rated in NSW? I can guess that it's not considered anything more than a passenger car but I can be wrong...

Secondly, does it make any difference to the question really? Not having weighed my unladen L-series, but guessing it at about 1130kg (pretty sure that's what it was in an old review) I figure it's only going to take a 2.0 EJ to make it go a whole lot better and a newer 1999 model EJ20 is going to go about the same as a more tired EJ22 from around 1995 to I may as well not stuff around with all the legalities and just put one in.

As for all you fellas getting out and about with a 2.2 under the bonnet, sure, there's heaps of mechanics out there who expect that to be the engine in there anyway so they don't bat an eyelid... they don't hesitate with the 3" lift kit I've got on mine either so I guess that's what we're saying goes on??

Ahh too many discussions around the campfire really needed here rather than online but that's not possible... or is it?

fredsub · Post by **fredsub** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:55 am

Whatever it says on your rego paper. Looking at my old one, its got
Year - 1985, Make - SUBARU, Model - , Variant - , Shape - WAG,...Tare Weight - 1070,

No mention of it being 4WD. So its just a standard passenger wagon.

OkSubaru wrote:Maybe the extra weight of the EA82T would be just over 100kg ?

There is no way ea82t adds 100kg:-D, maybe 10kg if that.
But the EJ motors do weigh more, and if your directed to a weighbridge, don't forget the weight of your lift kit. If your over a certain weight, forget what it is, but another $cost annually kicks in.

I'd be for the EJ2.0, otherwise all the extra compliance costs and hassles, not sure if it be worth it for just a little bit more grunt,
whats the diff between 2.2 and 2.0 anyway?

Good luck Alex, when are you planning to do it?