front mount vs top mount

buddah · Post by **buddah** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:00 pm

I'm sure this thread has been started before.

However I'm currently looking in to installing a larger intercooler in my EJ20T converted 84 wagon.
It currently has the original small water intercooler setup that it got form the 91 rs it came from. But I'm looking to keep it cooler and hopefully gain a few kw's at the wheels.

I was wondering what people thought the best thing would be?

With the top mount;
pros-
It bolts on nice an close so you would think there would be less lag than with all the piping to the front.
Easier to install.
Nice scoop on the bonnet

cons-
There's obviously a limit to the size.
Nice big scoop that says "hello mr policeman I have a turbo".

What do people reckon?

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:23 pm

Just to clarify, by "front mount" you are referring to the standard water/air intercooler? or are you trying to decide between upgrading to a air top-mount and an air front-mount?

Are you actually having a problem with air temperatures climbing too high? might want to put in an air temp sensor gauge to figure out if it's going to be worth it. Perhaps if you are planning to run high boost...

Post by **Alex** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:24 pm

FMIC cos itll look awesome on your car.

alex

buddah · Post by **buddah** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:02 pm

AndrewT wrote:Just to clarify, by "front mount" you are referring to the standard water/air intercooler? or are you trying to decide between upgrading to a air top-mount and an air front-mount?

Are you actually having a problem with air temperatures climbing too high? might want to put in an air temp sensor gauge to figure out if it's going to be worth it. Perhaps if you are planning to run high boost...

By "front mount" I mean upgrading from the small water/air one that's on there at the moment.

I'm not having any serious problems, but I can definately notice the difference in power between when I push it on a hot day and it's running warm.
As apposed to on a cold day, or once I've given it a run on the highway. It seems to pull a lot more then.
And as I live in Brizzy it's only gonna get hotter through the summer.

An air temp sensor could be a good idea, would give me more info. Cheers. I was also thinking about installing an oil cooler as well?

And yes I would like to run more boost. And that's another question. Does anyone know if around 14psi is the max boost for a stock VF12. It's currently running on 11psi. And I'm guessing that running it at it's max would probably result in an early death, but would be good to know what the max is.

Wilbur · Post by **Wilbur** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:21 pm

Air to air front mount will still be affected by ambient temps. Water has better heat absorbtion properties than air, hence water spays. If it was me I'd try a larger radiator and water spray.....or pick up the phone and dial PWR 5598 1499 or A.R.E 3205 4620 and ask them as it is their business to be in the know.

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:01 pm

White_Lightning_Rex wrote:Air to air front mount will still be affected by ambient temps. Water has better heat absorbtion properties than air, hence water spays. If it was me I'd try a larger radiator and water spray.....or pick up the phone and dial PWR 5598 1499 or A.R.E 3205 4620 and ask them as it is their business to be in the know.

A larger radiator as suggested by W.L.Rex and a thermo fan operated by a manual switch when needed/wanted to draw air through this radiator.

Any intercooled turbo vehicle will see increase in manifold tempretures while sitting in traffic if there's no air flow over the cooling side of the intercooler, wether it be WAIC or Air to air top mount or front mount.

Cheers

Bennie

BrennyV · Post by **BrennyV** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:04 pm

unless you want big power stick with waic.

buddah · Post by **buddah** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:41 pm

El_Freddo wrote:A larger radiator as suggested by W.L.Rex and a thermo fan operated by a manual switch when needed/wanted to draw air through this radiator.

Bennie

If I was to keep the current WAIC system and upgrade the radiator, It would have to go in the space where I would probably put a FMIC ( behind the bumper and sticking out underneath). As the current one only just squeezes in behind the grill.

If I did this, and then was to upgrade injectors, turbo, extractors ( which I hope to do eventually ). Would the current WAIC system with a larger radiator be sufficient?

Thanks for the advice

Wilbur · Post by **Wilbur** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:35 am

So you will be running bigger boost etc ? I doubt the current water to air would keep up, but having said that I've heard of std wrx top mounts being used up to 200kw atw. I would still suggest talking to those two places I mensioned in my previous post.

buddah · Post by **buddah** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:49 pm

Yeah I would like to run more boost eventually..

Cheers for the advice, I'll give those guys a bell.

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:51 pm

I know a guy running 29psi through a lib waic in a VW bug.

The only way to know if your intercooler is not keeping up is to measure your intake air temps between the intercooler and the throttlebody.

buddah · Post by **buddah** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:44 pm

No sh*t, 29psi! With the standard rs WAIC? Or bigger radiator?

Yeah well I guess putting an air temp gauge in will give me a better idea.

cheers

Post by **Alex** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:16 pm

to get a decent power upgrade get a boost controller and gauge(if you havent already got one)

ive just wound my boost up to 14psi and it rocks! sooo much quicker! Stock boost is about 6-7psi. Boost cut should be around the 16psi mark.

im also running a little 8inch davies craig fan on my waic radiator. Keeps the car cooler and obviously when 4x4ing etc, theres a constant airstream thru the waic rad.

just afew idea there for ya.

alkex

D3V1L · Post by **D3V1L** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:25 pm

buddah wrote:No sh*t, 29psi! With the standard rs WAIC? Or bigger radiator?

Yeah well I guess putting an air temp gauge in will give me a better idea.

cheers

and my cousin ran 42psi into his rx7..heheh..but that was with a megga front mount

dave

buddah · Post by **buddah** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:26 am

Keffa wrote:to get a decent power upgrade get a boost controller and gauge(if you havent already got one)

ive just wound my boost up to 14psi and it rocks! sooo much quicker! Stock boost is about 6-7psi. Boost cut should be around the 16psi mark.

im also running a little 8inch davies craig fan on my waic radiator. Keeps the car cooler and obviously when 4x4ing etc, theres a constant airstream thru the waic rad.

just afew idea there for ya.

alkex

Already got a boost controller and gauge.

Wind it up to 14psi with the current system you reckon? Sounds good to me!

I think I would have to move the radiator to fit a thermo fan directly on it, but could be a good idea.

A cold box for the pod filter probly wouldn't go astray either.

Cheers mate,

BrennyV · Post by **BrennyV** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:13 am

14psi is about max you will see the stock rs waic working efficiently anymore is really a waste imho

liftedGT · Post by **liftedGT** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:24 am

Did u get it sorted??
I had a lifted Liberty with Legacy conversion and i set up a switch on the A/C compressor so that i could turn the A/C on in the car like normal but then turn the compressor off. This leaves the two big engine thermo fans on full time for sand/slow driving. Mine was Auto and i had a trans cooler next to the WAIC that i wanted to keep cool aswell.
Cheers

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:48 am

liftedGT wrote:...i could turn the A/C on in the car like normal but then turn the compressor off. This leaves the two big engine thermo fans on full time for sand/slow driving...

But your a/c wouldn't work without the compressor running. Why not just leave the a/c on?

buddah · Post by **buddah** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:03 pm

liftedGT wrote:Did u get it sorted??
..........i had a trans cooler next to the WAIC that i wanted to keep cool aswell.
Cheers

Nah. I'm havin this stutter issue up top end rev''s at the moment. So I think need to get that sorted before I up the boost.

Also there's two thermo fans sitting in between the engine radiator and the waic radiator, so it's getting constant airflow. I'm thinkin maybe bigger spray and and waic radiator? But still not toatally convinced.

Cheers,

liftedGT · Post by **liftedGT** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:13 pm

Dont know how to Quote ppl.

Brumbyrunner wrote.
But your a/c wouldn't work without the compressor running. Why not just leave the a/c on?

I didnt want the A/C on (cold day. loss of power. more heat in the area) i just wanted the fans on to keep the intercooler ect cool when sand driving. If i wanted the A/C on i could just turn the compressor back on.
hope this makes sence???