DR AWD box install tomorrow .

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Wed May 14, 2008 6:31 pm

Hi all , Ellie finally gets full time access to all ten diet coke can shredding claws so with luck I join the AWD club tomorrow .
It wont have the diff lock solenoids set up initially so I guess it will have vacuum ported to the off side of the actuators diaphragm . I guess at a pinch I could swap lines if I really needed to lock it in the short term .

Can't wait , cheers A .

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Wed May 14, 2008 7:11 pm

Cool

Remember lots of pics

Subafury · Post by **Subafury** » Wed May 14, 2008 8:50 pm

seems like the time for it as i think justins killerbee is having a box swap on friday.

AlpineRaven · Post by **AlpineRaven** » Wed May 14, 2008 10:17 pm

What kind of box and what mods?
Cheers
AP

Matatak · Post by **Matatak** » Wed May 14, 2008 10:21 pm

is this ur custom made Lseries AWD box?

shuld be good. AWD is the bomb.

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Fri May 16, 2008 10:00 am

No time ATM , to my surprise this box appears to already have the close ratio gearset and the lower L low range gearset .
Found monstrosities in exhause which is why my can doesn't rev and has no guts - worse that std factory exhaust .

ATM back of box touching that silly tin X member behind the main box X member so can hear the gears singing away .
Shifter support strut had to be shortened and narrowed where its bushed end bolts to the lower back of the gearbox case .
Very lucky to have a spare AWD Vortex SR box to donate its rear mounting and exhaust hanger bracket because their bolt pattern is different to the PT DR 4WD boxes .

Just on the gearstick feel , the side to side neutral gate has moved backwards slightly compared to std and there is a fair bit of sideways freeplay when the stick is pushed forward ie 1 4 5 . The backwards selected gears 2 and 4 are a bit tight and have no sideways movement at all .

Can't fling it around yet as the boot is full of toolboxes and the std RXT gearbox .
This box now feels very short compare to the std turbo ratios like if the speedo and tacko are to be believed 3300+ at 100 km/h compared to 3000 .

Gotta run , steel train awaits .

Cheers A .

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Fri May 16, 2008 4:00 pm

Can't wait to hear about the difference when you "fling" it around!

Good work. Would also like to know what sorta gearset your using in there.

Cheers

Bennie

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Fri May 16, 2008 8:09 pm

To be honest I don't know , I bought it from Gee as a DR converted Vortex XT4 AWD box which I assume once had the wide ratio set and tall low range like a PT RX-T box has .
I didn't realise until I got it up over about 90 km/h and thought the engine sounded a little busy , the tacho confirmed that it would have been turning less revs at the same speed previously so that prompted me to get up to 100 (on the M4 Motorway) and the tacho was reading up around 3300+ where it had been around 2900-3000 .
Also a novelty of the AWD box is "low range on demand" so I gave it a go to confirm the selector was operating properly . Imagine my surprise when the revs dropped 1000 between low and high (3000 to 2000) .
Some may remember that I had a growl in the back end which I took to be rear wheel bearings and were changed , the growl was actually cheap nasty tread tyres but we removed the rear diff/half shafts/rear half of tailshaft to make sure . While they were out I had the opportunity to use low range in the original RX-T box and the difference was a lot less low to high from 3000 in 5th , like about 450 odd rev drop changing into high range .
Since only two gear sets and two sets of low range gears fit these boxes I have to asume it has the close ratios and the shorter or lower low range gears .

PeeJay · Post by **PeeJay** » Fri May 16, 2008 8:26 pm

If you've got the 1.5 low range, 2nd in low range is about the same as 1st in high range.

But when I first got my AWD car I was playing with what was labelled "low range" and didn't notice any difference. That's how bad the normal "low" range is!

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Fri May 16, 2008 9:33 pm

I took so long trying to edit my last post that it timed out and I lost it .

Exhaust is dogs breakfast , ugly 1/4" thick weld around the INSIDE of the rear half of the middle pipes flange so its pretty strangled . Whole middle section of exhaust smaller that rear muffler section and cat/down piper , possibly 1.75 inch insted of 2" like it should be . Also the spring loaded carbon ring joint has been replaced with a plain rear half flange affair with no give in it . NFG .

The plan is to make new down pipe and wrap it in thermal wrap - Thermotech and have a far more modern and effficient and less restrictive cat behind the down pipes first joint . Not sure which tube size to run , possibly 2.25 behind the turbo to the cat and then the same from there .
The std down pipe is smaller on the inside than it looks on the outside , there is a series of smaller internal tubes internally so they wouldn't be any larger than 1 7/8 or 2" std . The mongrel header is made the same way .

Shifter . I think the shifters stay rod may have been shortened a tad too much because its a bit slopy in 1st 3rd 5th and a bit tight in 2nd and fourth so it needs to be extended or the gearboxes bracket shimmed back a little to put it where it should be . As I said the stick is a little further back at its top in neutral so the stay may be pulling it a little closer to the box than it should be . Also when low range is selected its a tad tight so more of the same .

I have no diff lock solenoids mounted but at least have the correct L series ones on their origional bracket . Gee sent me them and an on/on switch so just have to mount and plumb them to the actuator diaphragm can - have a short vaccum hose between its barbs to keep dust/dirt out .

Switches , PT and AWD boxes are different but at least the two switches on the nearside of the box are wired the same . So I have the reverse light and low range lights working - just need the diff lock one to show up as 4wd on the RX's dash . The two switch wire plugs on the off side of the box are not the same as PT RX ones so will have to figure out which the lock one is (lowest I suppose) and make them "join" .

No performace mods so far though the new engine is almost fully assembled . The Koni rear struts should be ready by Monday and once assembled bolt in easily enought .

Have to fix the stuff ups in the exhaust first and go from there , cheers A .

Fang · Post by **Fang** » Sat May 17, 2008 7:14 am

Adrian - I will be interested as to what you do in the end with the shifter rod. I had to shorten and "twist" mine.

Does anyone know what part is actually different on an Full Time 4WD RX gear lever assembly? The chop job we did on mine does not give a great shift feeling. Is it the shifter or the shifting rod that is different from a normal 4WD L Box?

Peejay wrote:But when I first got my AWD car I was playing with what was labelled "low range" and didn't notice any difference. That's how bad the normal "low" range is!

You are not wrong there. Putting the 1.592 low range in was the best thing I could have done.

My box is definately a turbo box - it's first is very tall.

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Sat May 17, 2008 8:02 am

Fang the factory WSM shows 1st being the same ratio (3.545) with the NA close and turbo wider ratio gearsets . If your previous box had a 3.9 final drive I suppose it would feel tall with 3.7 and the same ratio first .
I think the bushed section may have been turned slightly before it was welded but we were running out of time and had to make the car drivable .

With what I can find I think I'll try a thin spacer plate between that rear exhaust hanger and the stay bar mount - possibly something slotted so the two nuts can be backed off and the plate slid up in between and the nuts tightened . A bit of mucking around but saves 5 cutting and welding operations to find "right" .

I agree about the taller RX low range ratio , its only of any use if you rally the things and the rules don't allow gear ratio changes . The turbo low range effectively gives you a 4.44 final drive reduction through the std gear ratios . For off road or a traffic crawler gear its virtually useless , not hard to see why it was deleated on AWD Vortexes . Also lower low range with hotted up turbo torque could damage things .

Gotta run again , Perth express freighter to chase , cheers A .

Fang · Post by **Fang** » Sat May 17, 2008 8:21 am

discopotato03 wrote:Fang the factory WSM shows 1st being the same ratio (3.545) with the NA close and turbo wider ratio gearsets . If your previous box had a 3.9 final drive I suppose it would feel tall with 3.7 and the same ratio first .
I think the bushed section may have been turned slightly before it was welded but we were running out of time and had to make the car drivable

Hmm yeah you are right - I can see that in my WSM. Mine does feel taller than the old box though - maybe its just my perception. I should compare revs and speed. I've only ever had 3.7. Coz of the 27" tyres, I tend to drive around the city in Low.

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Sat May 17, 2008 8:37 pm

Home at last , Fang I was thinking the coverall may be to make an adjustable stay by welding a threaded section to the bush end and an internal threaded bit to the tubular section - and locking it up with a crab nut . That way adjustment would be as easy as pulling the bushed end off its mounting stud and screwing in or out to experiment with various lengths .
There would have been proper factory parts on the USDM/JDM AWD L's but rocking horse do do here .

I can't wait to get that tinny cross member behind the gearbox so they are not touching because its transmitting all kinds of transmission/engine/exhaust noise via this thing into the floor pan . Obviously the rubber in the engine and gearbox mounts isolate most of this from the shell and I can assure you its better when they do . It could be as simple as thick washers or plates with longer bolts to space this member down and off the lower back of the box .
I think when the additional noise is gone it won't seem as bad overall as it feels now . Also getting the shift right and a squeak in the clutch pedal fixed will help it feel "normal" .
LOL silly noises bother me and I'm never happy till there fixed .

More tomorrow , cheers A .

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Sat May 17, 2008 10:02 pm

Sounds like your a happy L AWD owner then?

I know what you mean about noises, my quick fix is to turn the stereo up

Bennie

r00fi · Post by **r00fi** » Sun May 18, 2008 4:29 pm

Hey guys,

I have an AWD drive box (single range) that I want to put in my RX. I'm trying to get my head around what mods are needed to put it in.

From what I have read:

1. Gear stick cut and shut
2. Gearbox cross member
3. Diff lock switch (big vac solenoid is bolted to side of my box)

Is that it?

Also not really sure how to work out ratio, I lkied the idea of putting it in 4th and counting rotations, but sounds like 4th isn't going to be 1:1

I think my rear diff is a 3.9

AlpineRaven · Post by **AlpineRaven** » Sun May 18, 2008 7:50 pm

I think single range AWD is normally 3.7:1 could be wrong tho... where is the box from?
Cheers
AP

r00fi · Post by **r00fi** » Sun May 18, 2008 8:33 pm

AlpineRaven wrote:I think single range AWD is normally 3.7:1 could be wrong tho... where is the box from?
Cheers
AP

Pretty sure it was in a jap Vortex. Engine had spider and long turbo vent attached.

Fang · Post by **Fang** » Sun May 18, 2008 9:22 pm

I believe some were 3.9 - and they were in JDM Vortex/Alcyone/XT/Whatever you want to call it. Would be rarer than rocking horse poop here if you did have one of those.

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Sun May 18, 2008 9:52 pm

From what I can tell there were only ever 3 variations of the L Series and Vortex AWD gearbox .

The Vortex versions were all single range and used the wide or turbo gear ratios as did the L series one .
The Vortex six cylinder (ER27 powered XT6) had a 3.9:1 diff ratio and the four cylinder (EA82 powered XT4) had a 3.7 diff ratio .
Off the top of my head XT6's got 14" wheels and the XT4 13" wheels .

The L series (I think Turbo RX sedans and coups) got the dual range option and the 3.7:1 diff ratio .

The XT6 version would be the rarest one of the three because of its 3.9 final drive ratio .
Note that the L/Vortex AWD box uses the longest and therefore unique front diff pinion shaft amongst all Subaru gearboxes in the EA/EJ range .
There were only ever 3.7 and 3.9 diff gear sets made for this type of gearbox and because more AWD XT4's and RX L's were sold around the world than AWD XT6's (I think only JDM and USDM) the 3.7's are more common than 3.9's .

I think Gareth's method of finding the actual diff ratio is the easiest .

Quote: Turn the gearbox upside down and remove its oil drain plug ( I'll assume the oil had been drained first otherwise it gets messy !) .
You should be able to see the bottom of the crown wheel and its teeth .
If you wipe the end of one tooth clean you should be able to mark it with a permanent marker or small dab of paint . You then have to carefully turn the diff around counting the teeth until you reach the marked one . If you counted 37 its a 3.7 and if you counted 39 its a 3.9 .

A word of warning . The pinion gear on the 3.7 and 3.9 sets both have 10 teeth but don't don't be tempted to use the 3.7 10 tooth pinion on the common 39 tooth crown wheel because the tooth form is different and it doesn't work . If you want a 3.9 you have to get one from an AWD XT6 box or get the 3.9 type 10 tooth pinion gear properly cut and shut on the 3.7 type AWD pinion shaft .

To use these gearboxes in an Aus spec L RX Turbo you have to modify the shift mechanisms stay or steady bar because the lower rear of the AWD transmission is deeper and longer than the part time box to house the center differential . The upper rear of the box where the tailshaft slides in is dimensionally the same as the part time 4WD gearbox .
You have to shorten the shift mechanisms steady bar because the gearbox end mounting sits further back and also its cross pin that the steady bar mounts to is shorter than the part time boxes one .
You can't merely swap the PT one for the AWD one (gearbox end bracket) because the mounting studs on the back of the AWD boxes casing are closer together so they don't interchange . Also to piss everyone off the exhaust bracket is unique to the AWD box and is sandwiched between the gearbox end stay mounting bracket and the gearbox case . Therefore it has different hole centres as well .
It's best if your AWD box has its native bracket and exhaust hanger as well .
The stay bar on mine was shortened and narrowed , see my earlier posts for details of how much . At this stage I think it was shortened too much and 5mm less would be a reasonable guess but I am going to experiment by shimming the rear bracket back from the gearbox case , I reckon the fixing nuts have about 6-8mm proud of them so I have that much to play with .

Be aware that you must remove the heat shields around the turbo and the complete down pipe/cat pipe . We also found out at the critical moment (3 of us struggling with the box under the hoist) that it won't fit up with the diff locks vacuum actuator in place . Remove its 3 mounting bolts and let it dangle from its cable then refit once the box is in .

Also , THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT . Make sure the speedo drives rubber seal bonded to steel washer is out of your AWD box before you bolt the box in . My RX had this rubber seal/steel washer fixed on the cable end and it took a while to work out why we couldn't get the cable in properly . It is REALLY REALLY difficult to get the seal/washer out with the box in the car and cost us half an hour . You can't see from the top whats going on and pick away with an angled scriber to get it out . In the end we removed the outer cable mount at the diff locks linkage end and coaxed the mongrel out . Would have taken 10 seconds if we'd known before the gearbox was bolted in ....

Fourth lastly this cross member I've been talking about .
It is NOT the main one that supports the gearbox on its rubber mounts . The one I mean is merely a steel pressing that spans the bottom of the transmission tunnel to give the body shell additional stiffness and isn't supposed to touch anything except the floor pan either side of the tunnel via its 4 8mm fixing bolts . Well unfortunately the back of the AWD box being deeper , the bloody shifters stay bar mounting bracket and the back of the stay bars tubular section want to rest up against this stiffening plate . The answer is to space this plate down about 5 to 6mm and use slightly longer bolts . For the record these bolts are M8 x 1.25 and have 12mm heads . If you have a couple of strips of 6mm/0.25 inch flat bar about 25-30 wide you could drill them using the stiffening plate as a template to space it down out of the boxes way .

Third lastly Vortexes use different clutch cable brackets to L series cars so transfer these while both boxes are out on the floor .

Second lastly , these boxes are pretty heavy when your holding them over your head . You don't need me to tell you what would happen if you dropped it or worse if it landed on you . Many hands make light work and save backs/arms/heads/feet . We found that having that troublesome stiffening plate up behind the box when offered up gave us a leverage point to get the pilot bearing and clutch spline to slide together . Not easy at all .

Lastly , you think it's all over bar the shouting except that you have to fill the box with gear oil - about 3.3L from memory .
We were using a propper workshop hand pump on a 20L drum and no matter how slow we went the gearbox literally "burped " some oil back up through the filler - messy . It takes ages for some silly reason . Before you start make sure the drain plug is in and tight or it'll take for ever ...
A surprising number of people forget to put oil in the box and they don't last very long if you don't , how hard would you kick yourself if ....

Anyhow its all doable but it takes a lot of time .

Cheers A .