5 Stud Hubs on Brumby. Offset Issues.

PHATnob · Post by **PHATnob** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:30 pm

Hello all. I own a 84 Brumby.

I have a front and rear five stud hub configuration with discs on front/back and rear hBrake setup.

Problem: 31x10.5 R15s do NOT sit far enough out from the hub on the Liberty Stock Steel Rims which I have used to put the larger tyres on.

This causes the tyre to rub on the back swing arm (on Tortion Bar), and also does not give me that "Phat" look, and wide footprint I am after.

On the front, the standard liberty strut - lower spring seat - is too low, and the wheel simply can not bolt on, as the low section of the spring seat is in the way.

(Guards have been modded and chopped sufficiently to fit the tyres with a 4" Lift applied, I will also apply a wide Flared Guard setup (fibreglass) when finished, so not very worried about having Mega Offset, infact...thats just what I am looking for :P)

Solution:

1) I thought making up some spacer plates (1") from alloy or steel so that the wheels would sit farther out from hubs, making nice Phatness and removing rubbage, especially for the front when steering.

2) Alter the mounting location of the front and rear control arms outwards to provide extra offset. (I am after about 2" Extra

:):))

3) RIMS! Most prefferred thought would be to use rims to change offset, as it is the easiest and most practical/cost effective methods.

The question for the great minds on this forum, is which subaru rims (or equivalent 5 stud) of 15" size would supply greater offset than the standard GX liberty Steel Rims. I am interested in specifically the RS liberty mags , but open to all suggestions.

If anyone can Help me in this operation, it would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers.

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:26 pm

Forester and Outback rims will give you an extra 7mm offset but that won't be enough. You will have to go aftermarket to get the offset you are after. Probably new. You'd be better off going to your favourite tyre store and asking for the biggest offset rim they can get. Then do some measuring and see if they will clear. For your info, the Liberty rims have a +55mm offset and the Forester are +48mm. I just bought some +38mm rims for my race car.
To my knowledge, nobody in Aust. is running tyres this wide. Are you not worried about traction? Especially in the wet?
I think you'd better post up some pics of this Brumby too.

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:32 pm

What gearing you planning on running with 31" rubber? Standard Brumby gearing would suck big time.

Aqua-planing in the wet on 10.5's would be an interesting experience too.

vincentvega · Post by **vincentvega** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:38 am

you have 10.5" wide tyres on 6" wide rims?? hows that working for ya

SUBYDAZZ · Post by **SUBYDAZZ** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:47 am

Greater offset or less? The early Liberty and Impreza wheels are the biggest offset of all Subarus at +55mm.

SUBYDAZZ · Post by **SUBYDAZZ** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:03 am

You want something with a negative offset, or at least close to zero, and yes, I wouldn't think those wheels will sit safely on 6 or 6.5" rims. so if you end up going with 7-8" rims you'd need even more negative offset.

Beware the spacers for wheels to, put a lot of extra stress on the hub and in most states are illegal too.

Last question is, will you be able to steer a tyre of that size on the front if you get it on? Love to see some pics of your brumby if you have some

28" tyres are about the biggest tyres most have had fitted.

PHATnob · Post by **PHATnob** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:38 pm

BRUMBYRUNNER: Your brumby was partially my inspiration actually. Very awesome car I must say.
Thanks for the tip on rims. Less offset the better eh? I might try to see if there is another vehicle with the same stud pattern, such as a Rav or a small Hilux Ute. I have noticed these to be five stud, but have little hope that they will be the same stud distance. If they did, they would almost surely have the offset I am after.
As for having the widest tyres, "Fatz" is running 31x11.5 I think, but that may need to be confirmed.
Traction may be an issue, as you said, in the wet, but why is this? I thought the more tyre on the road the better, or is it going to lower traction due to more water to have to displace?
I am planning to run Wrangler 30x9.5", but want to have enough space for the larger tyres, just to make sure that there will be no Rubbage in any circumstance. This is why I am fitting 31x10.5s up for measurements. Originally wanted to run 31" 10.5 on Back and 31" 9.5 on front, but realized that there are only certain widths with certain diameters.

JACK: Subaru gearing would have to be a great downfall, but we have to make the most of it I suppose. Shall try to use L series D/R low range gearset to get the most reduction I can, as turning these buggers is going to be labouring on the engine.
Good point on the Aqua Planing, lol, but this car is predominantly going to be designated for the off-road spectrum.

VINCENTVEGA: I was quite surprised at how well the wheels took to the narrow rims, but there is no sign of sidewall taper, and they are still nice and round until the tread.

SUBYDAZZ: I did not know that about offsets. So Offset is just the distance that the centre of the tyre is inwards to the wheel arch? Or basically, the less offset, the wider footprint will be achieved?
I didn’t want to go spacers for that very reason, as the hub may do something bad in time.
As for steering, I have the L series power rack and liberty column, new uni joints, and using the Liberty Strut tops with the bearing, so hopefully the mechanical side won’t be a liability, however, the simple width of the tyres may become a problem. Less with the 9.5s though.

Thank you all for feedback, I learnt a fair bit in this lesson

Hopefully will post some pictures up for you all soon, but am in the process of moving, so maybe a few days away. It’s not very pretty for a car right now. I have stripped the whole thing down due to rusting quite severely in some areas. It looks a bit like a camouflage of white paint, brownish bare metal, and bog.

PHATnob · Post by **PHATnob** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:43 pm

BRUMBYRUNNER: Your brumby was partially my inspiration actually. Very awesome car I must say.
Thanks for the tip on rims. Less offset the better eh? I might try to see if there is another vehicle with the same stud pattern, such as a Rav or a small Hilux Ute. I have noticed these to be five stud, but have little hope that they will be the same stud distance. If they did, they would almost surely have the offset I am after.
As for having the widest tyres, "Fatz" is running 31x11.5 I think, but that may need to be confirmed.
Traction may be an issue, as you said, in the wet, but why is this? I thought the more tyre on the road the better, or is it going to lower traction due to more water to have to displace?
I am planning to run Wrangler 30x9.5", but want to have enough space for the larger tyres, just to make sure that there will be no Rubbage in any circumstance. This is why I am fitting 31x10.5s up for measurements. Originally wanted to run 31" 10.5 on Back and 31" 9.5 on front, but realized that there are only certain widths with certain diameters.

JACK: Subaru gearing would have to be a great downfall, but we have to make the most of it I suppose. Shall try to use L series D/R low range gearset to get the most reduction I can, as turning these buggers is going to be labouring on the engine.
Good point on the Aqua Planing, lol, but this car is predominantly going to be designated for the off-road spectrum.

VINCENTVEGA: I was quite surprised at how well the wheels took to the narrow rims, but there is no sign of sidewall taper, and they are still nice and round until the tread.

SUBYDAZZ: I did not know that about offsets. So Offset is just the distance that the rim is inwards to the wheel arch? Or basically, the less offset, the wider footprint will be achieved?
I didn’t want to go spacers for that very reason, as the hub may do something bad in time.
As for steering, I have the L series power rack and liberty column, new uni joints, and using the Liberty Strut tops with the bearing, so hopefully the mechanical side won’t be a liability, however, the simple width of the tyres may become a problem. Less with the 9.5s though.

Thank you all for feedback, I learnt a fair bit in this lesson

Hopefully will post some pictures up for you all soon, but am in the process of moving, so maybe a few days away. It’s not very pretty for a car right now. I have stripped the whole thing down due to rusting quite severely in some areas. It looks a bit like a camouflage of white paint, brownish bare metal, and bog.

Posting back soon.

PHATnob · Post by **PHATnob** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:40 pm

WOW!

I just checked "Fatz" thread about his Monster L series wagon, and that is what I call nice offset. Even half that would be great. Wheel bearings a popping!

showthread.php?t=5971&highlight=fatz

SUBYDAZZ · Post by **SUBYDAZZ** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:09 am

Offset is simply the distance from the centre of the width of the wheel that the wheel mounting surface is. a zero offset means it is in the dead centre of the width. ie if you had a 6" wide wheel with zero offset then the wheel mounting surface would be exactly in the middle or 3" in from either edge.

Positive offset means the wheel mounting surface is further towards the outside of the wheel, ie an early Subaru Liberty 15x6" wheel has the mounting surface 55mm closer to the outside of the wheel than the centre. Negative offset is the opposite obviously, so something with -20mm would be 20mm closer to the inside of the wheel.

With wheels that are wider than your suspension / body will allow you obviously want more negative offset (makes the tyres stick out from body more which I think is what you are after here), though of course when you steer the front wheels they are going to be more likely to rub on the outer guard, rather than the inner parts. This is where some cutting can be good.

Negative offset:

Zero offset:

Positive offset:

stolen from this page: http://www.carbibles.com/tyre_bible_pg2.html

Phizinza · Post by **Phizinza** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:47 am

PHATnob wrote:Thanks for the tip on rims. Less offset the better eh? I might try to see if there is another vehicle with the same stud pattern, such as a Rav or a small Hilux Ute.

http://www.alloywheelsinternational.com ... guide.html
There are a ton of this type of info on websites around the net. This I just tuened up with a 2 min search. Just look for 'PCD' in google and keep looking through a few pages, then start narrowing it down to '"5 stud" PCD' or something and keep going. I found quite a lot of info in the past about what cars use 5x100 but its all just somewhere in my head lost now.

2WD Hilux use 5x114.3 BTW, same as Nissan's.
The new Jeep Wrangler looks like a very small 5 stud. Should look into it.

SUBYDAZZ · Post by **SUBYDAZZ** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:28 pm

Most tyre places should have a copy of the Njoy tire and wheel fitment guide.
It shows all (ie:most) makes and models, the PCDs and the offset. Then you can narrow down your search for what you need. It's won't show if the mounting surfaces or centre holes are right from memory

SUBYDAZZ · Post by **SUBYDAZZ** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:30 pm

Phizinza wrote: There are a ton of this type of info on websites around the net.

The interweb can be your friend...

...or your enemy