Fitting a weber

91Brumby
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Fitting a weber

Post by 91Brumby » Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:59 am

Got a brand new weber for my Brumby which is exciting as the old carby was a complete piece of over-complicated crap.

Question about the coolant flow through the manifold - is this still needed? Can they be blocked off at the motor (left side standing front of car looking at motor which looks like intake) and the coolant pipe on the right (which looks like return)? From what I can tell, they only exist to allow coolant to flow through the carby which the weber doesn't use.

Will blocking off on the motor cause any issue with coolant flow through the motor?
Or should I run a hose from the fitting on the motor on the left to the return on the right?
Or do I need / want coolant flowing through the manifold regardless?

Thanks

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TOONGA
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Re: Fitting a weber

Post by TOONGA » Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:29 pm

if the coolant line is still connected leave it.

Coolant flows from either head through the manifold via a coolant channel.

I must ask did you get a Weber with the correct jets and venturis?

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91Brumby
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Re: Fitting a weber

Post by 91Brumby » Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:58 am

Hi TOONGA,

I purchased a proper kit from <removed... for now>. They were very helpful.

I think the previous owner may have blocked the channels in the manifold where the carby sits.
I'll have a proper look before I fit the weber but won't the plate for the new carby block those channels anyway?

Thanks
Last edited by 91Brumby on Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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El_Freddo
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Re: Fitting a weber

Post by El_Freddo » Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:19 pm

G’day 91 Brumby,

I believe those channels will be fine with the adaptor plate for the Weber. From what remember of the EA82 intake manifold, removing the carbie exposes the coolant channel. The adaptor plate should seal it again.

The P.O. probably didn’t block the channel, unless they physically removed the pipework and diverted it. Otherwise it’s probably blocked with crud.

All the best with it!

Cheers

Bennie
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Re: Fitting a weber

Post by 91Brumby » Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:07 pm

Well this has been 4 weekends of unmitigated disaster.

First problem, the adaptor plate supplied didn't bolt up.

https://www.redlineauto.com.au/p-4771-r ... -2bbl.aspx
Did some research and find I had to tap out the manifold. All good, I had a dodgy manifold to practice on so I went and bought an 8mm tap.

Tapped it out. Went to fit the gasket and block - it doesn't quite cover the damn water jacket.
Now at this point I should have posted the whole frigging lot back but like a moron I decided to make my own gasket using gasket paper. Did that, but I don't know if it is going to hold forever. Again I really should have stopped but I'd spent so many weekends on this thing....

Got the carby on to the manifold and the manifold on the car.
Went to hook up the linkage kit they provided, only to find it doesn't clear the dizzy. Now at this point I REALLY should have stopped and questioned what I had been sold but no like a complete dipsh!t I make an adjustment with the grinder and bolt the damn thing on.

Next problem, the bolt that holds the throttle cable to the linkage now contacts another part of the carby mechanism. Come this far, why not make more adjustments. Took the linkage off and shortened the bolt with the grinder.

Next problem, the nut that holds the linkage on won't tighten. Looks like the thread is damaged.. At this point I am really starting to wonder if I have been supplied with a genuine carby as I didn't exactly over tighten the nut. I put a washer to space it out a little and do the nut up again with some locktite. If this car ever drives, I fully expect the linkage to fall off while I am driving.

IDK what to do. I really should have sent the whole lot back when the carby place neglected to tell me I needed to tap out the manifold. I was assured it was all a bolt on replacement with everything I needed. Is there any way to tell if the carby is genuine? I hope I haven't been sold a knock off.

Should I get a different adaptor plate? My only remaining good manifolds have the smaller stud pattern. I don't really want to take it all off again, but I sort of feel I have to. As for the thread on the shaft that holds the linkage on, I am super annoyed about that. I'm about ready to just cut my losses and set the whole thing on fire.

The thing that really gets me, aside from using different model carbys with different pollution junk and some different manifold set ups to suit, all of the Subaru EA81's are pretty much the same. This should be easy. I was told it was easy. I was told it was all a direct fit. No tapping, grinding, modifying etc was ever mentioned.

Any advice or input would be appreciated.

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Re: Fitting a weber

Post by El_Freddo » Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:56 pm

And down the rabbit hole you went :(

Dunno if you could contact the seller and find out about that nut/threaded shaft issue.

I believe the adaptor plate issue is a common one. I don’t know the part number but there is one out there that does the job properly - or cut one out of 12mm ally and call it a day. I certainly wouldn’t rely on unsupported/clamped paper to hold coolant pressures if that’s what you were eluding to!

Cheers

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Re: Fitting a weber

Post by 91Brumby » Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:46 am

I asked the seller about the adaptor plate and he said I should just plug the hole.
Apparently all the kits require the manifolds to be tapped out.

So clearly not a direct bolt on replacement. My definition of direct fit doesn't extend to needing to tap out bolt holes.

Best bet for plugging the water hole? JB Weld?

Also, does the throttle need an external return spring? It seems to spring back really well on its own but frankly I don't even trust that this carb is genuine so want to play it safe. There is absolutely nowhere to fit the return spring provided.

Thanks

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Re: Fitting a weber

Post by 91Brumby » Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:18 pm

Made a brass plug to go in the hole in the manifold ensuring it didn't block the water fitting, then went over it with some cold weld stuff that was supposedly resistant to coolant etc to ensure it sealed properly.

Got it all together and it seems to run well enough. The supposedly rebuilt motor I put in it seems a bit smokey and somewhat noisy. Sounds like it has a bit of a knock. I did check the valve clearance before putting the motor in and it was all good. I guess I will take the covers off and check again. Wish I had the skills to do an EA81 OHC and 5 speed conversion but I know enough to know that is far beyond me.

Had it running for a good 20 mins or so. Checked timing and was pretty close to spec. Idle is good at about 800rpm.
Starts well from cold and only needs minimal choke to rev freely.

Can anyone advise how much advance should be applied when the motor is revving? Without the vacuum line plugged in to the distributor, it was advancing a good 20 degrees at least. With it plugged in, it went a lot further. Is that normal? Obviously I expected it to advance but the amount threw me a little so just wanting to confirm it is in fact a normal amount of advance.

I haven't changed a single setting on the carby yet - in hindsight I probably should have checked all of that first. Will follow the procedure detailed at http://www.redlineweber.com/html/Tech/c ... _best_.htm

When I stopped the motor, it ran on a considerable amount - for a good 5 seconds or more. It didn't sound like it was doing the engine any favours that is for sure. It only did this once. All other times it stopped cleanly. Anything in particular I should check here?


Thanks

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Re: Fitting a weber

Post by 91Brumby » Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:32 am

Tuned the carby as per process, worked out a few of the remaining issues and got it driving.

I think I am going to remove the LPG given new service stations don't sell it anyway. Also concerned it might damage the new carby. Real shame though as it ran great on gas and was cheap as to run. Having two separate fuel sources also has advantages.

The way the LPG fuel cut off is mounted and the fitting on the new carby results in the fuel line resting on top of the alternator which is obviously not a workable solution (I insulated it just for test drive). Even without the LPG, I still have to run the fuel line to the front of the motor because of the fitting location. I don't know why they made this carby with the fitting at the front....

I have a flat spot seemingly where the secondary part of the carby opens. The car accelerates to a point, then lags a little then accelerates again.
Is this normal with this particular type of carby? Is there anything I can do to remedy it?

Acceleration seems good aside from the flat spot. Top speed hasn't really changed (though this is more a limitation of gearing I believe).

Still need to sort out the pipes going to the canister. Don't want any trouble from the enviro-douchebags. Any tips on this?

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Re: Fitting a weber

Post by GL-5 » Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:32 pm

There are two different sizes of adapter. Early EA81 and late EA81. Which was yours? My adapter for early model was solid. The adapter for late model for me was a two piece. Both were redline adapters.

You need to add a phenolic spacer to increase the carb height. I have two 4 or 5mm spacers (+gaskets) between the carb and adapter.

You can use the original hitachi carb throttle cable arm. The original spring can also be attached from the arm to the carb part that hits the distributor (just file a notch to hold the spring). I'm no-longer using this setup (long story) and am using the supplied weber spring and arm. I like a heavy throttle and I have the spring cable tied to the base of the distributor. Looking at the throttle arm I have a nut on both sides of it. Maybe a spacer too? not sure. I added spacers to where the throttle cable is crimped to take out slop, keep the throttle cabble straight and prevent binding at low rpm/hot weather.

I hated the electronic choke. I fitted a water choke and it works beatufully. Also changed the thermostat to open earlier (lower temp?) to allow the choke to turn off more quickly. Probably not necessary, or even correct but hasn't caused problems and never gone back.

I wouldn't run the weber without an idle cut off solenoid unless you like your engine running after you turn the ignition off.

I run the base timing more advanced than standard but it's been 10years since I checked what it is. I think it was 6 degrees BTDC (I have to run 98 fuel). I also modified the mechanical advance slots to reduce the timing as I was getting pinging a high revs (I did try main/air/emulsion jet size changes but too but this worked better). Probably not necessary. Probably also why mine runs on without the idle cut off solenoid, but I was having fun testing my new toy and never bothered going back.

I still have vacuum advance connected.

I recently had to tune mine again. I had a sticky throttle on 40 degree plus days and I think the Inox i sprayed allowed the idle or throttle screw to change.

Took a while to get right again. Followed the instructions but had a nasty flat spot on take off. Was too hot back in summer too. It was too lean. Accelerated throttle slightly by hand and turned idle screw checking for flat spot until it dissapeared. Runs great again :). I think it is about two to 2 and half turns out.

I have the small water pipe on the manifold connected to the block. Nothing to the base of the carb. Not sure if correct but I never had any problems.

Conected one rocker cover to PCV and the other to the air cleaner. Not sure if the best way but it's worked for me.

My manifold has no EGR so didn't have to worry about that. I have no other polution gear. The fuel tank vent line is blocked, so i drilled a tiny tiny hole in the fuel cap to release pressure. Your car will smell of fuel in the garage because the weber fuel bowl is vented straight to the air, not the tiny hole in the fuel cap.

I wish I had kept the return fuel line. Would have been nice to have a little carb cooling on hot days.

The carb kits sold for the EA81 i believe come with a Cortina 2000 03B jetted carb (Haynes Webber Manual), mine did. I spent alot of time and fuel playing with jet sizes. Honestly it's too time consuming and too hard to tell. Changing the idle jet is easy but currently running the standard 60 size.

Fuel conomy not so great, my fuel warning light is gone so I base my city usage at around 10l per 100km. Much, much better on the open highway.

My setup was running great for 12 years on two different engines, just requiring a recent tune up. I hope you get some good use out of yours too.

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Re: Fitting a weber

Post by 91Brumby » Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:42 am

Thanks for taking the time to share your experiences. Very informative.

I'm really disappointed that the guy who sold me the 'kit' oversimplified things and left out critical information despite my repeated questions on the topic. I really expected better from a place that specialises in Weber conversions.

Mine is the smaller size manifold. The adaptor worked well enough after tapping out the manifold studs and blocking the water hole for the factory carb though it wasn't perfect for the EA81 manifold - they could have taken a bit more off one end. They obviously tried to make it apply to as many vehicles as possible.

What is the purpose of the phenolic spacer you mention? The adaptor plate already adds a decent amount of height. Not sure I would want to add much more without risking it interfering with the bonnet.

I don't have the external spring on the redline throttle assembly but the internal spring on the throttle is really good - reasonably firm and always returns no problems. If it starts to stick I'll look at attaching an external spring.

Yeah I went with manual choke which is honestly fine, and easier to deal with than water. Was a bit tough to start yesterday even with the choke. I think the idle is too low at just on 800rpm. Might need to bump her up to 850rpm.

The carby guy didn't mention anything about idle cut off solenoids. The Internet seems to disagree as to if they are needed or not. Will my 32/36 support installing one? I'd rather not have the motor run on. That being said, more often than not it stops very cleanly. It only ran on to a serious degree once and that was before I set the mixture.

My timing is set to stock with the vacuum advance connected from the carby to the dizzy.

So my flat spot could just be too lean? I will play around with the settings a bit more I guess.

My fuel tank vent line still goes to the canister. All of the hoses that are disconnected (cause they connected to the old carb) seem to end up at the canister as well. Does anyone know, is there a legal requirement to have them in Vic? If so, how do we get around this? If not, can I remove all of the hoses and just block off the fittings at the canister end and only have the fuel talk vent line? Or does the canister itself still need to breathe somehow?

I'll post a couple of pics later (once I sort out the fuel line as it is real dodgy at present!).

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Re: Fitting a weber

Post by GL-5 » Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:23 pm

Redline has an adapter for that manifold (no modifications required). It's the 99004-110. The 112 isn't even mentioned on the US Redline site. Must be an Australia only thing.

I believe the spacer is to insulate the carb from the manifold. The original carb has one also.

As to height, the two spacers allowed me to get to minimum clearance I was happy with, 5mm between nearest spark lead boot and carb. Also enough that I can still get the dizzy cap off. I do remember people installing a webber and then afterwards not being able to remove the cap :P You may not have to worry about this with a manual choke version (unless it's an auto-manual conversion)

I'm running a ramflo 600 series air cleaner. At least an Inch between bonnet underside and air cleaner. The supplied box air cleaner also fitted easily. I think that was 1inch to 1.5inch tall.

Solenoid is about 50 dollars so if you don't need one then don't worry. Running on will be worse in summer heat though. It will fit aslong as you have a large screw to hold the idle jet. I believe all Spanish versions are like this. If you have a recon Itallian version then there is a small possibility that it won't fit (smaller screw to hold the idle jet).

There would be a legal reqiurement to keep all your pollution gear. Which would make your webber illegal as well (there are versions available with a sealed float bowl with flange for pollution gear). Your charcoal canister wouldn't work properly now anyway. I took mine out, if someone looked in the engine bay then there is nothing to notice with blocked pipes. If you keep it, then yes it needs to be vented as it connects to your fuel tank vent line.

I've only ever been concerned about keeping a catalytic converter if installed (had a later model brumby). My current car is 83 so I don't have to worry about that anymore.

Most of your driving is done on the idle jet. As mine is 2to2.5 turns out i could probably try going up one size to 65. However i'm satisfied that it runs well enough though so I won't bother.

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Re: Fitting a weber

Post by 91Brumby » Sat Aug 08, 2020 6:37 pm

Upped the idle slightly and now the flat spot seems to be better.

Got new fuel line and installed it as best I could. The inlet is in a really bad place. I added some extra insulation around the fuel line in case it contacts the manifold.

I didn't realise these things have two fuel filters. Only noticed when I got underneath to disconnect the pump to drain the fuel line before replacing the hose. Can anyone confirm the correct part number for the rear filter at the pump? I know the one at the front is a Z428 but that isn't right for the rear one.

I'm pretty sure I am going to ditch the LPG due to the difficulties feeding it in to the new air filter (unless anyone has any suggestions as to how I could do it?) I hate only having one fuel source (my last few vehicles have been duel fuel) as having LPG is handy when fuel pumps die.
It doesn't look like you can get original fuel pumps anymore and that you have to rig something else up if the original dies. Is that right?

I drove it for 10km today and it barely got warm which doesn't seem right. I guess it is a pretty cold day but still. The radiator had a small amount of pressure, but the coolant was only warm. It ran well enough otherwise.

I also tidied / fixed most of the pollution gear to make it as compliant as possible. 8)

I need to sort out this knocking noise. I am hoping it just needs valve adjustment and that there isn't something wrong internally. Thing is, is isn't there when the car first starts. If it were the valve adjustment I'd assume it would be there from the get go (could be wrong on this assumption though).

I did fit new oil and water pumps when the motor went in (motor was sold to me as a 'rebuild' - it came with the new pumps ready to fit. I assume they just did the head gaskets and whatnot). I hope I didn't do something wrong installing the oil pump causing it to not pump oil (there is no pressure switch and the bolt where the switch should go got rounded off :evil: ). The installation process seemed simple enough and we followed the instructions in the workshop manual. I've done 30km or so on this motor now so I'd imagine it would have died a while ago if oil wasn't circulating.

Some images and a video below.

Would appreciate any advice, suggestions and/or criticism (expecting plenty of criticism, I really don't know how I got this far with this project).

Link to video with audio showing how noisy it is!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6iaqh74ab3htu ... .mp4?raw=1

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Re: Fitting a weber

Post by El_Freddo » Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:03 pm

G’day 91Brumby,

Fuel pump: you can replace it with an aftermarket fawcet pump. Only needs to be low pressure.

I can’t remember the specific fuel filter number up the back is. You can use a regular filter and cable tie it in securely. Does the same job.

That knocking noise certainly is a knock! It’s not tappets. Next time you hear it use a piece of dowel or a long screw driver like a stethoscope on different parts of the engine. This will tell you where the issue is. It could be piston slap in one of the cylinders but I’m not certain on that. I hope it’s a cheap fix.

To keep the LPG either use a gas ring on the top of the carb, between carb and the air filter, or mod the stock air filter to take the Webber (looks mint when done) and build a pipe that goes into the airbox inside the air filter that then “hooks” into the top of the carb facing down the main jet area. This should allow the gas system to do its thing, just that you won’t have the vacuum/air velocity that creates the Venturi effect as this pipe will be higher than that area.

I hope that gives you some direction with solving these last issues with the engine and the Webber.

Cheers

Bennie
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Re: Fitting a weber

Post by 91Brumby » Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:43 pm

Thanks for the input Bennie.
Didn't even consider modding the stock air cleaner but that sounds like a good idea.
As nice as the aftermarket air cleaner looks, it is just plain out of place on an old Brumby. I have a couple of spare ones so will give it a go.

I'll try to replace the rear fuel filter ASAP.
Hopefully the pump outlasts the car but I think I'll try to rig up the LPG just in case. Will move the fuel cut off tap to a better location so the line to the carb isn't sitting on top of the alternator. I assume just like any other carby, gas won't damage the weber provided petrol is used frequently enough?

Regarding the noise, if it isn't the tappets, then what else could it be?
Is there any chance oil isn't getting to where it needs to go? These things are pretty simple so I can't see how... but who knows right?

I wish I could put in an EA82 and a 5 speed (or maybe an EA81 OHC and a 5 speed?), but I think that is beyond me. I should stick to Fords - at least disappointment and failure is expected with those things! The old Subaru's are supposed to be 'easy' haha.

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