D/R 5 Speed into Brumby

[Subiegirl]

Hi all

So i have sourced out a 5 speed dual range gearbox from Liberty with custom tailshaft, front turbo shafts, matching rear diff and gearbox crossmember. Just wondering is there anything else i would need to convert the 4speed to the 5 speed? Is there an adapter plate that could be made to mate it to the EA81, then later down the track i can chuck in an ej20. Also i suspect the box may need rebuilding as its a little noisy but works fine, how easy/hard is it to rebuild a gearbox as i would like to attempt this myself.

Also i was wondering, if i was to install a wrx dash, in theory would a wrx wiring loom and matching motor just plug and play so to speak? Or would i still need to cut down the loom?

Anywho any info would be great, and anyone in Brisbane willing to give me a hand if the conversion is possible, i am willing to learn and always offer free beers and two helping hands

cheers

[El_Freddo]

G'day tash (:p)

The AWD gearbox is simple to pull apart compared to the L series PT 5 speed box. You shouldn't have any trouble getting it apart. While your there you should look into dropping the L series' 1.59:1 low range in. There's a bit of fiddling around and you'll need another gearbox but it can be done and would be well worth the effort while you've got the box split.

As for replacing bearings etc, I've not done this myself before so I don't know what the process would be or how much it would cost. I would like to have all new bearings for the next box I build which will hopefully be started when I get home from this mountain.

As for the WRX dash, I think you'd need to run the WRX wiring loom as well to make this work. The WRX ECU would use the dash to display a few items and may even use it as a reference point for some inputs. I dunno what you can do here as I've not done it before myself - so this bit of info could be completely useless!

All the best with it, remember to take loads of pics while you do it!

Cheers

Bennie

[Subiegirl]

heya bennie

Ah you remember me! lol:) how is things down in rainy vic and your globetrotting sis? I read your write up on your conversion, brilliant, wish i had learnt those skills growing up, alas it is never too late eh?

I just got off the phone with the guy selling the parts i was after, and has now told me that it is l-series parts...Damn! i'll only be able to use the box, but i reckon it will need rebuilding, no use putting it in and running into troubles later on. Guess i'll have to keep searching, or win the lotto, either/ or will do
Gawd so wish you were in brissy, would love to pick ur brain over all things subie

Anywho, i'll keep searching and searching and say hello to your family, it has been such a long time.

cheers
tash

[tex]

Ive been planning on doing the L series one as it should be easier plus you can buy a whole car for the price of just the box! The subie boys might be able to give you a few words of advice!

[El_Freddo]

heya bennie

Ah you remember me! lol:) how is things down in rainy vic and your globetrotting sis? I read your write up on your conversion, brilliant, wish i had learnt those skills growing up, alas it is never too late eh?

Things are pretty good, I'm living and working in the snow at Mt Hotham at the moment... The rain is killing it and we've got another 2 days rain forecast before they're event thinking of telling us about more snow

Sis is in Canada, worked their ski season and she's now working on some sort of stud over there. She'll be home for the wedding in November so it'll be good to catch up with her! You should look her up on face book, last name is "frank" - don't ask why!

I'm not really the subi guru you make me out to be - I only know my subi inside out and same for Sunnie the Brumby. He needs some work that one nothing but time...

I was thinking that if you go for the AWD gearbox you'll come across issues with the flywheel and clutch setup - I don't know how you'd got about getting around these. Best thing to do would grab an L series gearbox and an AWD box, work out the gear ratios (easier said than done) to get the right set you need for engine revs while cruising and crawling. With these two boxes, make an AWD, L series Low Range'd, EA cased gearbox that will bolt straight up to your gearbox.

That will be a bit of work but worth the effort I reckon. I don't know what would need to be done for the prop shaft or the gear selectors but it wouldn't take much to work that out...

With your EA81 what have you done in terms of power upgrades at are simple and cheap?

Cheers

Bennie

[Subiegirl]

whoa...ok...i have never taken apart a gearbox before... at the moment, my 4speed gearbox is a bit stuffed, makes this horrible whine/grind noise upon startup, grinds into reverse and sometimes doesn't engage at all and the gearstick feels very loose. I am considering my options before my gearbox decides to chuck it in. 1/ either recondition my 4 speed or 2/ find some way to put an l series 5 speed or 3/ make up the hybrid you suggested, which sounds great but i am far from mechanically competant LOL:???:

Is their a way to remove my 4 speed gearbox and replace them with the l series internals in an ea box? That way i can just pop it back in and everything should fit fine. How would the gear shifter go? Would that need mods? I also picked up a near new clutch and pressure plate, which i would probably put in at the same time. Unfortunately i don't think i can do this myself, as i have no idea what i am doing:) But at least if i know what i can do, i can work on getting it organised within my budget.

I would love to do the whole conversion in one go as you suggested, but studying and working full time kinda puts a little dent in those plans. I won't have enough cash for another 3 years or so. Somehow i don't think my gearbox will survive that long hmmm...decisions decisions.

Also i heard that some people running webers couldn't get the choke to work? I have a weber carb DGEV 32/36 just sitting in the shed as it doesn't have a choke and i was told by Zoks Race Carbs in brissy that without the choke it will not work? is this true? As to buy a choke is $85 brand new... at the moment i have only done some small mods, pioneer stereo, 14" sunraisers, chrome dress rings, new tyres, msd ignition coil, high temp leads, ngk plat sparkys, battery upgrade, vacuum guage, 2" free flow exhaust w/ 3" dump, door trim upgrade, new wipers, saas steering, momo gearknob. I would like the weber to be fitted, but atm the choke is an issue.

Awesum, i was planning a roady down to melb this chrissy if i manage to accumulate enough annual leave, do you guys still own the farm? So if laura is still there, i will def love to say hello and catch up over a few drinks
Anywho if i keep going, i'll end up writing a thesis LOL
cheers

[TOONGA]

Im going to answer the weber question for you it will run fine without a choke in summer but on cold mornings especially in winter you will need a really good starter motor and battery as you will have to start you engine every time you stall

my suggestion is not to bother with an electric choke as they are more trouble than the 85 dollars they want for one buy a manual choke kit http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Weber-ca ... 53dafabcdc

like this one from Ebay and then you have complete control over how long the choke stays on not a silly bimetal spring which only works for 2-5 minutes as per manufacturers standards

then bolt you weber on and be amazed by the difference it makes

TOONGA

[78sti]

The L series box is a good upgrade for a brumby as is. No AWD but it is a much better gearbox than the 4 speed.
Although it is totally different to the 4 speed and the internals are not interchangable.
To put the l series box in you will need to do the following
- Gearbox bolts up but starter requires washers under to move back about 4mm
- Clutch requires brumby flywheel and pressure plate and l series clutch plate and throw out bearing.
- L series gear lever required and will need a little modification to fit
- Gearbox mounts, Brumby ones can be used with very little modification but L series ones are much better and require a custom cross member.
- Tail shaft, either get the existing lengthened or an L series one shortened (this is cheaper but you need need to make a mount for the center bearing)
- Change the rear diff if the ratios are not the same
- Clutch cable, I cant remember which one works best?
- Rewiring the gearbox to the brumby plug (only a few wires)

I think that is about it?

[TOONGA]

an in depth excursion into 5 speed Lserie's boxes into MY's

showthread.php?t=11821

TOONGA

[Subiegirl]

Im going to answer the weber question for you it will run fine without a choke in summer but on cold mornings especially in winter you will need a really good starter motor and battery as you will have to start you engine every time you stall

^^ sorry to sound ignorant, but with a manual choke, how would i go about setting up a pull/switch thing inside the cabin? Its looks relatively simple, but so did the gearbox upgrade until i read rtcb65 post and piccys, i don't have any fabrication skills/ tools and wouldn't feel confident about choppin up the old girl...hmmm its beginning to look like reconditioning my standard gearbox is the only hopefully cheap and realistic way to go atm.

Does anyone on these forums do reconditioning/ gearbox transplants for a fee? Or know of any good subie mechanics in brisbane that can do gearboxes?

Cheers for the help guys

[TOONGA]

^^ sorry to sound ignorant, but with a manual choke, how would i go about setting up a pull/switch thing inside the cabin? Its looks relatively simple, but so did the gearbox upgrade until i read rtcb65 post and piccys, i don't have any fabrication skills/ tools and wouldn't feel confident about choppin up the old girl...hmmm its beginning to look like reconditioning my standard gearbox is the only hopefully cheap and realistic way to go atm.

Does anyone on these forums do reconditioning/ gearbox transplants for a fee? Or know of any good subie mechanics in brisbane that can do gearboxes?

Cheers for the help guys

the holes are all there from factory under the speedo area you just have to remove a small tab of plastic and you have a hole to put the choke cable head into

TOONGA

[preno]

^^ sorry to sound ignorant, but with a manual choke, how would i go about setting up a pull/switch thing inside the cabin? Its looks relatively simple, but so did the gearbox upgrade until i read rtcb65 post and piccys, i don't have any fabrication skills/ tools and wouldn't feel confident about choppin up the old girl...hmmm its beginning to look like reconditioning my standard gearbox is the only hopefully cheap and realistic way to go atm.

Does anyone on these forums do reconditioning/ gearbox transplants for a fee? Or know of any good subie mechanics in brisbane that can do gearboxes?

Cheers for the help guys

you shouldnt need to fabricate anything to fit an l series box in your brumby. Use the brumby cross member + the original mounts. there is a metal piece that bolts to the gearbox that the rubber mounts bolt to. U will need to remove this as well and elongate the mounting holes to suit the l series box. pretty easy with a round file. there is also a bung at the top of the l series box that needs to be cut of so to fit the box in properly.

i think you can only use the l series clutch disk if your brumby has the larger size clutch. but not 100% sure. i used a gemini clutch disk.

You also dont need a choke on ur weber.

[dfoyl]

>>the holes are all there from factory under the speedo area you just have to remove a small tab of plastic and you have a hole to put the choke cable head into

Yep, have a look at any pre-83 MY and they will likely have the choke cable fitted (it's to the left of the steering column). Suggest you find a wreckers with a donor and take the entire cable as a set as it should be long enough for the weber linkage.

I would not bother reconditioning the 4-speed, it is simply not worth it. Find a L series on eBay or similar with a blown head gasket and strip out the gearbox and two-piece driveshaft, then sell the L series to a wreckers (most of the value to them is the body anyway). Avoid a MPFI-equipped L series as they don't match the MY CV's, you want a standard carby model. The 5 speed will give you a much-needed gear between 3rd and 4th, is lighter than the 4-speed, and is also quite a bit stronger. If you do go EJ down the track you can either use the 5-speed with an adaptor plate or use the internals for a hybrid EJ AWD box.

Dean.

[Subiegirl]

hmm, so its really not worth recon my 4 speed...ive sourced out a 5 speed d/r but don't know whether it is the 23/25 spline count.

Ok to do the gearbox i need the following:

1/ Gearbox
2/ L series driveshafts
3/ matching diff
4/ 4wd selector
5/ clutch disk

Things to do:
a) dismantle brumby
b) file out mounting holes
c) Do i need a custom crossmember support for driveshafts?
d) somehow fit the l series 4wd selector and gearstick stuff
e) Cut off metal thingamajig on l series gearbox
f) Shorten Driveshafts- is this expensive and by how much? What type of workshop does these things?
g) Use l series clutch disc and brumby pressure plate
H) put back together?
i) Are there any seals/bushes that should be done while its in pieces?

Hmm...it seems simple...would i need a rattle gun? or any specific tools, like a torque wrench? My entire tool collection comes to the sum of about $80 worth of china crappola...yeh...maybe i should admit i'm way over my head...but wheres theres a will theres a way right

To get this done by a pro would cost a fair few pennies, pennies i don't have.

On the weber note, it should probably be my first port of call as my current carb was 'apparently' reconditioned but ended up being completely and utterly untuned if thats possible, a bunch of monkeys would have been more successful. At present, the old girl is a pain to drive with the stuffed carby, and sometimes not drivable at all...not sure whats the go there, but something to do with the way it idles or the fuel/air mix which may have been fiddled with as well. The only positive in that story is that i didn't pay for it, as they couldn't get it drivable again after 4 hours of playing around with the carb...oh my poor brumby, 5 mins of me fiddling with the idle and i got it drivable but its never been the same. Hence my enthusiasm to do things myself, even if i have no friggin idea what im doing half the time and this serves to only frustrate me further.

hmm Weber is numero uno priority, gearbox numero dos...then its back to saving for another year.

[preno]

always a good feeling when you fix your own car yourself ay.

Just to let you know there is not one set way on putting a 5speed into a brumby. Lots of people have done it differently. You will probably have to work a few things out on your way.

But i think if you were to source all the parts first and then pay someone to do it then that would still be cheaper then gett the four speed recoditioned.

I say give it a shot.

[rtcb65]

If you have a look through the thread of the link. It should give you abit of an idea.

showthread.php?t=14686

[Subiegirl]

Hi

Ok cool i found a gearbox!! and for a reasonable price and its in brisbane! But just waiting to hear back on what the guy wants for the driveshafts, diff, 4wd lever and clutch disk. Hopefully if all within my tiny budget i will have most of the stuff required, then it will just be a matter of getting the driveshafts modded etc and finding a guru to give me a hand as i really want to attempt this myself. Massive learning curve, but im keen as beans!:D

Also i read somewhere on these forums that the l series clutch disk may need to be machined slightly, can someone confirm this?

Also found someone to do my weber, but they want a hefty $300...phew...no thanks thats more than the carb, adapter, filter price combined!!

Maybe i should just have a go and put it on and hope that the jetting is good and that it starts without a choke? If only i had another runabout while the brumby is in the shop i.e. carport lol:p

Anyways thanks for all the info, its been really helpful.

cheers

[preno]

also dont forget the l-series clutch cable. brumby one is to short.

[olddog642]

Hi there Subiegirl,
here are a couple of pics showing the inside position of the choke control and also a pic of the cable at the carby end, although it is a standard hitachi carby on my 85 Brumby

Hylton

[Green_eyed_liberty]

so going to have a working bee day in brisbane some time soon?

i'll come and watch haha for when its my turn to do the conversion (i also have compressors/rattleguns/and about everyother tool known to man)