electric water pump conversion?

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:49 am

Has anyone fitted the aftermarket electric water pump kit to anything subie or not? Looks to be designed and made in Australia by Davies Craig and one to fit most applications or rather you make it fit. About $200 I think. Can also be coupled with a controller to regulate its output based on revs and temperature etc, think it is about same money to add on to price.From what I have seen they claim it is the way of the future for engine design to save fuel make more power. I know some manufacturers have gone electric assist for power steering so I guess no harm in EWP before we go electric brakes ?

Might be an appropriate mod for some to consider, Adrian with his update of his EA82T perhaps?

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:31 am

I've got the small one on my racecar. No controller, just leave it on. Works well.

To be of some power saving advantage you need to remove the engine driven water pump. I don't think ths is practicle with a Suby.

Storm · Post by **Storm** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:36 am

Steptoe, have you googled Davies Craig EWP? There are alot of webpages, forums especially, that give it a big thumbs down.

brumbyrunner wrote:To be of some power saving advantage you need to remove the engine driven water pump. I don't think ths is practicle with a Suby.

Davies Craig says you can use the both if you want to have maximum cooling. The effect of two pumps is supposed to increase the effective output of both.

I have been thinking about it for my V8 and have it hooked up to my ECU so the ECU controls when it pumps (much like the ECU controlling the electric fan) but I would leave the engine driven water pump one so it can circulate the coolant for my LPG system.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:10 pm

I have only read the sales blurbs in trade magazines over the years and thought the idea was to gut existing pump leaving its water tight housing removing its drag on engine. I'd have thought the pump needs to continuously cycle or have the controller at work but NOT ECU controlled if it was on off affair like fans unless ECU took over the Davies controller functiions. Food for thought

Storm · Post by **Storm** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:19 pm

The original idea was to remove the impeller from the original pump or totally bypass it with a new fan belt. Since the originals come out, and the quality control on the original units wasn't very good, people have tried many different variations and the Davies Craig website has info on and links to the different variations.

My idea of using my ECU to control the EWP is simply based on the fact the EWP Controller is a PWM unit. Most ECUs available since the late 80s and early 90s have PWM controls. I know my Delco 808 has PWM for the fan controls so my thoughts were to use 1 fan control for the fans and the 2nd for the EWP.

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:16 pm

Storm wrote:Steptoe, have you googled Davies Craig EWP? There are alot of webpages, forums especially, that give it a big thumbs down.

What are they giving the thumbs down to? Longevity? Function?

Storm · Post by **Storm** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:20 pm

brumbyrunner wrote:What are they giving the thumbs down to? Longevity? Function?

Both. Some claim the EWP didn't effectively cool the engine, others claim the engines were absolutely boiled because of them. while others claim they will just break under load.

Just google it and read around various forums and personal websites, you'll see what I am talking about.

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:04 am

I just spent a long time scanning forums and even the Autospeed stuff from 2003. Apart from some failings of the first generation of pumps back in '03 I can't find many people bagging them. Most posters have positive comments.
The reason I picked up on your comments is because I run one of these EWP in my off-road racecar to pump the coolant from the rear mounted radiator towards the engine. If there is a problem I need to know about it. I only use the smaller 80 litre/min unit. Do you have any first hand experiance with failed pumps or any links?
I've run mine dry a few times and thought it was getting noisy so I rang Davies Craig and spoke to Thomas Craig about it. We had a long yarn about the development of his pumps and how they cured the early problems.

Storm · Post by **Storm** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:49 am

brumbyrunner wrote: Do you have any first hand experiance with failed pumps or any links?

Like I said Google Davies Craig EWP, here is the 4th link on the list
http://www.calaisturbo.com.au/showthread.php?t=61087

Then we have
http://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11230907
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topi ... =&t=232698

A good report
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_2982/article.html

These are ALL over the net, some people swear by them, others don't.

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:50 am

I like the Idea of the things but don't feel very good about the composite matierial they are made of , I would have been happier if they'd used aluminium casings .

Like elec rad fans elec coolant pumps are not direcly tied to engine speed - so you can run them faster at low engine revs and slower at high engine revs .

I believe like previously mentioned people are intended to remove the std pumps impeller but leave everything else to hang a pulley/mechanical fan/belt/engine water outlet and rad hose off .

The down side is higher electrical demand and what do you do if it fails completly ? With an EA82 I'd be more comfortable with a good quality mechanical pump , they do the job and don't add the additional complexity of electrical power and control systems .

Cheers A .

One thing I have at times considered is the small DC elec booster water pump , it could circulate coolant with the engine off which is handy particularly with turbo engines .

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:53 pm

The composite may have worried me years ago but having seen plastic radiators only give signs of wear and tear after 10 or 12 years and crack up - that is not bad at all. Fitting them remotely would beat timing belt removal on our subies standard pumps, but once a std is fitted I generally get good service life anyway ...

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:35 pm

My policy with composite tank radiators is to replace them with a Jap branded one - Koyo in my case . Can't afford to lose expensive engines to second hand rad tanks .

To mod a water pump on an EA82 you'd have to remove it anyway so for me easier just to replace it . Note that not all L pumps have the same impeller , I don't remember which one my new engine has but I do know that its impeller is larger in diameter with a lower blade count that the one it replaced . My engine builder has used that brand pumps before on performance engines and said they work well .

Cheers A .

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:19 pm

Storm wrote:Like I said Google Davies Craig EWP, here is the 4th link on the list
http://www.calaisturbo.com.au/showthread.php?t=61087

Then we have
http://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11230907
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topi ... =&t=232698

A good report
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_2982/article.html

These are ALL over the net, some people swear by them, others don't.

I had a look at those forums. The Autospeed article is 6 years old.
After digesting all of that I think we can comfortably say that the current EWP is a good thing if you need to use one. Horses for courses but they would have to have a lower failure rate than new Hilux clutches, Landcruiser V8 fuel systems or any part on a Defender!

Storm · Post by **Storm** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:26 am

brumbyrunner wrote:I had a look at those forums. The Autospeed article is 6 years old.
After digesting all of that I think we can comfortably say that the current EWP is a good thing if you need to use one. Horses for courses but they would have to have a lower failure rate than new Hilux clutches, Landcruiser V8 fuel systems or any part on a Defender!

Um you didn't read it all then. The Autospeed link wasn't an article, it was a guy who wrote in telling Autospeed his EWP was good. The others are just an extremely small example of what is on the net about Davies Craig EWPs. Infact they were all on the first google page. There are plenty more and because I am not a slave I didn't think it was a requirement that I go onto page 2 just because you didn't want to look. I'm not saying they are a bad thing, what I am saying is if you want to buy one, or have one, you need to do some research for yourself and not expect others to get you links.

The comments about vehicles from other manufacturers really wasn't required. I worked in a speciallist L/R workshop for many years in South Australia and Defenders are actually a good vehicle (the Australian Defence Force used them for many years based purely on their dependability). I have heard a few things about the Land/C V8 fuel systems but all in all they are pretty good, and as for Hilux's well that is a design flaw that has been in Hilux's ever since thy went to the bigger sizes in everything. Bundera's had very similar problems and it was all because they were mismatched.

CPOCSM · Post by **CPOCSM** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:23 am

I have used the DC water pump on the mini for nearly 200,000km and not a hint of trouble. I did remove it when I rebuilt the new engine purely because I have no room left under the bonnet for the plumbing and the pump(I run a 10 inch thermo as well as the water pump and no mechanical fan). The internals of the DC pump were pretty well had it though when I finished removing it and was at the end of its life. Frankly it never turned on when I was on the highway as the momentum kept the car cool enough. I had a small light come on when the pump was working and another for the thermo fan...only really knew it was working when I was in the city in Canberra and on start-up.

If I can plumb it in with all the other plumbing under the bonnet, I will get another but they are getting a bit pricey now...

Hooroo

Storm · Post by **Storm** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:53 pm

They have released another model just recently, it is advertised in the latest issue of Australian 4wd Action and it is a 115 litre/minute instead of the 80 and 110 litre/minute.. Looks like a totally new design to from the picture.

CPOCSM · Post by **CPOCSM** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:17 pm

Storm wrote:They have released another model just recently, it is advertised in the latest issue of Australian 4wd Action and it is a 115 litre/minute instead of the 80 and 110 litre/minute.. Looks like a totally new design to from the picture.

I just hate wiring the bastards!! Considering the Mini only has a small alternator(forget it with the old style generators!!)I was pushing the limits load-wise. I have a Hyundai altenator now - 130 amps and means now I can turn the stereo(yes a stereo with am AND fm)up and not having to worry about the lights dimming or the fuel pump shitting the biscuit...

Hooroo