New generation fusible links.
- steptoe
- Master Member
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- Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:00 am
- Location: 14 miles outside Gotham City
New generation fusible links.
About a year ago I had grief with coroded FL's in my L series , and two years before that in my 84 Brumby.
Someone suggested using the new generation of plastic box enclosed FL's (known as FFL's Female Fusible Links) as they just clip in place of originals. I bought some off a travelling auto elec guy only to find they are 32? Volt rated so an 80 A 32V would give different rating at 12V wouldn't it? 240 Amps?? Don't think I know where they are now anyway.
http://www.circuitprotection.ca/fuseology.html answers the question above. It is OK to use higher Volt rated fuse in lower Volt applications
Again, just today I felt a momentary ignition like baulk or cut out as I was cruising light load. Yet to check the replaced FL's for any corrosion or their integrity. Certainly do not want a repeat of last year as it caused a high voltage spike and fried many circuits under dash, behind dash and all light bulbs frazzled
Any time this happens in my car I get shakey, anyone elses car I feel quite fine
I need to visit an auto elec or supercheap for correct voltage and amps units to try. (EDIT 08APR2012 - SCA FL also rated at 32V ) Also considering a rewire of ignition supply, new wires connections and relays as a switchable back up just in case my 24 year old gives up ghost. Time to hoard tools and spare ignition module as another be prepared sort of thing, or update cars.
Handy link to Narva site fuselinks info
http://www.narva.com.au/products/browse/metal-manual
SORRY, this is manual fuse ciruit breaker - still gets you there , just look at fuse links female
.....
showthread.php?t=14769
is where it all began for me.
new question for the electricians out there
what does continuous Amp rating mean or refer
is that short for a 20A fuse has a 20A continuous Amp rating?
...............
so it looks like - correct me if I am wrong, don't blame me if I am wrong, just thinking out loud on the white board (or dry erase for the US readers)
BLACK FL genuine with 1.25mm is 24A continuous amp rated (can't find 24A plastics, 30A?)
RED FL genuine with 0.85mm is 18A contiuous amp rated (so ? 20A in plastic)
GREEN FL genuine with 0.50mm is 13A continuous amp rated ( not found 15A in plastics eithe
the subie colours are different to the Narva fuse wire codes if compared with cross sectional dimnsions
........................
narva web site under fuses > link > wires give the rating of wire colours and cross sectional dia.. I matched the 1.25mm to the little 2
HERE
http://www.narva.com.au/products/browse/fuse-link-wire
......................
From the FSM
0.5mm green, woven fabric insulation Fusible link should melt within 15 seconds at a current flow of 80 amperes
0.85mm red, woven fabric insulation blah, blah, blah 130 amperes
1.25mm black, woven fabric insulation 190amperes
Someone suggested using the new generation of plastic box enclosed FL's (known as FFL's Female Fusible Links) as they just clip in place of originals. I bought some off a travelling auto elec guy only to find they are 32? Volt rated so an 80 A 32V would give different rating at 12V wouldn't it? 240 Amps?? Don't think I know where they are now anyway.
http://www.circuitprotection.ca/fuseology.html answers the question above. It is OK to use higher Volt rated fuse in lower Volt applications
Again, just today I felt a momentary ignition like baulk or cut out as I was cruising light load. Yet to check the replaced FL's for any corrosion or their integrity. Certainly do not want a repeat of last year as it caused a high voltage spike and fried many circuits under dash, behind dash and all light bulbs frazzled
Any time this happens in my car I get shakey, anyone elses car I feel quite fine
I need to visit an auto elec or supercheap for correct voltage and amps units to try. (EDIT 08APR2012 - SCA FL also rated at 32V ) Also considering a rewire of ignition supply, new wires connections and relays as a switchable back up just in case my 24 year old gives up ghost. Time to hoard tools and spare ignition module as another be prepared sort of thing, or update cars.
Handy link to Narva site fuselinks info
http://www.narva.com.au/products/browse/metal-manual
SORRY, this is manual fuse ciruit breaker - still gets you there , just look at fuse links female
.....
showthread.php?t=14769
is where it all began for me.
new question for the electricians out there
what does continuous Amp rating mean or refer
is that short for a 20A fuse has a 20A continuous Amp rating?
...............
so it looks like - correct me if I am wrong, don't blame me if I am wrong, just thinking out loud on the white board (or dry erase for the US readers)
BLACK FL genuine with 1.25mm is 24A continuous amp rated (can't find 24A plastics, 30A?)
RED FL genuine with 0.85mm is 18A contiuous amp rated (so ? 20A in plastic)
GREEN FL genuine with 0.50mm is 13A continuous amp rated ( not found 15A in plastics eithe
the subie colours are different to the Narva fuse wire codes if compared with cross sectional dimnsions
........................
narva web site under fuses > link > wires give the rating of wire colours and cross sectional dia.. I matched the 1.25mm to the little 2
HERE
http://www.narva.com.au/products/browse/fuse-link-wire
......................
From the FSM
0.5mm green, woven fabric insulation Fusible link should melt within 15 seconds at a current flow of 80 amperes
0.85mm red, woven fabric insulation blah, blah, blah 130 amperes
1.25mm black, woven fabric insulation 190amperes
- steptoe
- Master Member
- Posts: 11582
- Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:00 am
- Location: 14 miles outside Gotham City
showthread.php?t=14769
is where it all began for me.
new question for the electricians out there
what does continuous Amp rating mean or refer
is that short for a 20A fuse has a 20A continuous Amp rating?
is where it all began for me.
new question for the electricians out there
what does continuous Amp rating mean or refer
is that short for a 20A fuse has a 20A continuous Amp rating?
- steptoe
- Master Member
- Posts: 11582
- Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:00 am
- Location: 14 miles outside Gotham City
so it looks like - correct me if I am wrong, don't blame me if I am wrong, just thinking out loud on the white board (or dry erase for the US readers)
BLACK FL genuine with 1.25mm is 24A continuous amp rated (can't find 24A plastics, 30A?)
RED FL genuine with 0.85mm is 18A contiuous amp rated (so ? 20A in plastic)
GREEN FL genuine with 0.50mm is 13A continuous amp rated ( not found 15A in plastics eithe
the subie colours are different to the Narva fuse wire codes if compared with cross sectional dimnsions
BLACK FL genuine with 1.25mm is 24A continuous amp rated (can't find 24A plastics, 30A?)
RED FL genuine with 0.85mm is 18A contiuous amp rated (so ? 20A in plastic)
GREEN FL genuine with 0.50mm is 13A continuous amp rated ( not found 15A in plastics eithe
the subie colours are different to the Narva fuse wire codes if compared with cross sectional dimnsions
- TOONGA
- Elder Member
- Posts: 5335
- Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 10:15 am
- Location: Australind closer to where they divided by zero
- Contact:
Just curious as to where you got these ratings from, as Ive looked in the MY FSM Ive got and it didn't have rating specificationssteptoe wrote:so it looks like - correct me if I am wrong, don't blame me if I am wrong, just thinking out loud on the white board (or dry erase for the US readers)
BLACK FL genuine with 1.25mm is 24A continuous amp rated (can't find 24A plastics, 30A?)
RED FL genuine with 0.85mm is 18A contiuous amp rated (so ? 20A in plastic)
GREEN FL genuine with 0.50mm is 13A continuous amp rated ( not found 15A in plastics eithe
the subie colours are different to the Narva fuse wire codes if compared with cross sectional dimnsions
and if they are correct I need to put in fusable links with lower amp ratings
TOONGA
- steptoe
- Master Member
- Posts: 11582
- Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:00 am
- Location: 14 miles outside Gotham City
narva web site under fuses > link > wires give the rating of wire colours and cross sectional dia.. I matched the 1.25mm to the little 2
HERE
http://www.narva.com.au/products/browse/fuse-link-wire
HERE
http://www.narva.com.au/products/browse/fuse-link-wire
- steptoe
- Master Member
- Posts: 11582
- Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:00 am
- Location: 14 miles outside Gotham City
Gannon is onto it.....
Hey
I glanced over it yesterday, but didnt post cos i was in a hurry to go see kevin Bloddy Wilson.
Basically, a 13A fuse will never blow if you put 13.1A through it.
Its called the I2t rule
Current (I) squared times Time (t)
The wire temperature depends on the current flowing through it and how long it has been flowing
It takes roughly 6 times the rated current to blow a fuse instantaneously, around 3 times the current to make it blow in roughly 10 seconds and at twice the rated current, it could take nearly a minute.
I have to leave for work, so i'll explain it better when i get home
Hey
I glanced over it yesterday, but didnt post cos i was in a hurry to go see kevin Bloddy Wilson.
Basically, a 13A fuse will never blow if you put 13.1A through it.
Its called the I2t rule
Current (I) squared times Time (t)
The wire temperature depends on the current flowing through it and how long it has been flowing
It takes roughly 6 times the rated current to blow a fuse instantaneously, around 3 times the current to make it blow in roughly 10 seconds and at twice the rated current, it could take nearly a minute.
I have to leave for work, so i'll explain it better when i get home
- Gannon
- Senior Member
- Posts: 4580
- Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:00 am
- Location: Bowraville, Mid Nth Coast, NSW
If your 1.25mm fusible link is rated at 24A, replace it with either a 1.25mm fusible link or a 20A slow blow fuse or a 20A circuit breaker
My fuse times in the PM i sent you were only a guess.
Here is a diagram that shows the Current / Time characteristics of a 1A fast acting fuse.
Substitute the 1A rating for whatever rating fuse you have and the time curve will be basically the same.
Read through this Circuit Protection
1.25mm cable is rated for 21A (at an ambient temperature of 40degC) so a 15A fuse is what you would use to protect it.
A 1.25mm fusible link should melt above 24A (it could take 2 days) and will definitely melt at 190A after around 15 seconds. A 300A fault might fuse in 5 seconds.
Either way, your choice will either be a 20A slow blow replaceable fuse, a 20A circuit breaker or a replacement 1.25mm fusible link.
This is a video i made to show what happens when you dont use the right sized fuse
I used a welder to put 120A through a piece of 16A rated house light wiring.
As you can see it didnt take long to go poof
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8GiuM-gABY
My fuse times in the PM i sent you were only a guess.
Here is a diagram that shows the Current / Time characteristics of a 1A fast acting fuse.
Substitute the 1A rating for whatever rating fuse you have and the time curve will be basically the same.
Read through this Circuit Protection
1.25mm cable is rated for 21A (at an ambient temperature of 40degC) so a 15A fuse is what you would use to protect it.
A 1.25mm fusible link should melt above 24A (it could take 2 days) and will definitely melt at 190A after around 15 seconds. A 300A fault might fuse in 5 seconds.
Either way, your choice will either be a 20A slow blow replaceable fuse, a 20A circuit breaker or a replacement 1.25mm fusible link.
This is a video i made to show what happens when you dont use the right sized fuse
I used a welder to put 120A through a piece of 16A rated house light wiring.
As you can see it didnt take long to go poof
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8GiuM-gABY
Current rides: 2016 Mitsubishi Triton GLS & 2004 Forester X
Ongoing Project/Toy: 1987 RX Turbo EA82T, Speeduino ECU, Coil-pack ignition, 440cc Injectors, KONI adjustale front struts, Hybrid L Series/ Liberty AWD 5sp
Past rides: 92 L series turbo converted wagon, 83 Leone GL Sedan, 2004 Liberty GT Sedan & 2001 Outback
------------------------------------------
Ongoing Project/Toy: 1987 RX Turbo EA82T, Speeduino ECU, Coil-pack ignition, 440cc Injectors, KONI adjustale front struts, Hybrid L Series/ Liberty AWD 5sp
Past rides: 92 L series turbo converted wagon, 83 Leone GL Sedan, 2004 Liberty GT Sedan & 2001 Outback
------------------------------------------
- steptoe
- Master Member
- Posts: 11582
- Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:00 am
- Location: 14 miles outside Gotham City
OK, that was a cool segment, still got that plastic smell in your throat and schnoz?
Hmmm genuine application looking the safest simple bet here right now. These new fuse links not rated as slow blow. My problem may be ignition module causing a once off stutter just need to drive again with everything to change it on the spot if it happens again, - swap ig module anyway. All other ignition componets near new - 2500km old
Hmmm genuine application looking the safest simple bet here right now. These new fuse links not rated as slow blow. My problem may be ignition module causing a once off stutter just need to drive again with everything to change it on the spot if it happens again, - swap ig module anyway. All other ignition componets near new - 2500km old
- phillatdarwin
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- Gannon
- Senior Member
- Posts: 4580
- Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:00 am
- Location: Bowraville, Mid Nth Coast, NSW
Yeah Phill it right.
A 30V 10A fuse will work equally as well at 12v
The voltage rating is its ability to prevent an arc from forming, possibly letting current to continue flowing, or destroying the fuse and anything around it.
I wouldnt use a 30V on a 120V circuit.
A 30V 10A fuse will work equally as well at 12v
The voltage rating is its ability to prevent an arc from forming, possibly letting current to continue flowing, or destroying the fuse and anything around it.
I wouldnt use a 30V on a 120V circuit.
Current rides: 2016 Mitsubishi Triton GLS & 2004 Forester X
Ongoing Project/Toy: 1987 RX Turbo EA82T, Speeduino ECU, Coil-pack ignition, 440cc Injectors, KONI adjustale front struts, Hybrid L Series/ Liberty AWD 5sp
Past rides: 92 L series turbo converted wagon, 83 Leone GL Sedan, 2004 Liberty GT Sedan & 2001 Outback
------------------------------------------
Ongoing Project/Toy: 1987 RX Turbo EA82T, Speeduino ECU, Coil-pack ignition, 440cc Injectors, KONI adjustale front struts, Hybrid L Series/ Liberty AWD 5sp
Past rides: 92 L series turbo converted wagon, 83 Leone GL Sedan, 2004 Liberty GT Sedan & 2001 Outback
------------------------------------------
- El_Freddo
- Master Member
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- Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:00 am
- Location: Bridgewater Vic
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To dig up an "oldish" thread:Gannon wrote:Yeah Phill it right.
A 30V 10A fuse will work equally as well at 12v
The voltage rating is its ability to prevent an arc from forming, possibly letting current to continue flowing, or destroying the fuse and anything around it.
I wouldnt use a 30V on a 120V circuit.
I'm looking at finally replacing the fusible links with circuit breakers.
I can't remember what the ratings are for each of the green and black fusible links and the haynes manual is as useful as tits on a bull!
So what I'm asking is what amp rating circuit breakers should I be running for the black and green fusible links to make everything work properly?
I'm over fusible links!
*EDIT* ok, so this answers one of the circuit breaker ratings that I'll need, but what's the other one since I don't know what the fusible link rating is - and Ruby Scoo is 4km away to "just pop out and check it"
CheersGannon wrote:If your 1.25mm fusible link is rated at 24A, replace it with either a 1.25mm fusible link or a 20A slow blow fuse or a 20A circuit breaker
Bennie
- Gannon
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- Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:00 am
- Location: Bowraville, Mid Nth Coast, NSW
Just had a look at the 88XT FSM
The 2 green ones are 0.5mm2 and rated at 80A over 15sec
The red one is 0.85mm2 and rated at 130A
The black one as you know is 1.25mm2 and rated for 190A
The blue one is 2.0mm2 and rated for 260A
The 2 green ones are 0.5mm2 and rated at 80A over 15sec
The red one is 0.85mm2 and rated at 130A
The black one as you know is 1.25mm2 and rated for 190A
The blue one is 2.0mm2 and rated for 260A
Current rides: 2016 Mitsubishi Triton GLS & 2004 Forester X
Ongoing Project/Toy: 1987 RX Turbo EA82T, Speeduino ECU, Coil-pack ignition, 440cc Injectors, KONI adjustale front struts, Hybrid L Series/ Liberty AWD 5sp
Past rides: 92 L series turbo converted wagon, 83 Leone GL Sedan, 2004 Liberty GT Sedan & 2001 Outback
------------------------------------------
Ongoing Project/Toy: 1987 RX Turbo EA82T, Speeduino ECU, Coil-pack ignition, 440cc Injectors, KONI adjustale front struts, Hybrid L Series/ Liberty AWD 5sp
Past rides: 92 L series turbo converted wagon, 83 Leone GL Sedan, 2004 Liberty GT Sedan & 2001 Outback
------------------------------------------
- El_Freddo
- Master Member
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- Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:00 am
- Location: Bridgewater Vic
- Contact:
Thanks Gannon.
Ruby Scoo only has one black and three green. So I guess to get the correct amperage for the black unit I have to divide 190A by 4 which is 45A. Does this mean I need a 40A circuit breaker for the replacement of the black fusible link?
Thanks for your help - hopefully Jaycar will be open for me tomorrow while I'm off mountain.
Cheers
Bennie
Ruby Scoo only has one black and three green. So I guess to get the correct amperage for the black unit I have to divide 190A by 4 which is 45A. Does this mean I need a 40A circuit breaker for the replacement of the black fusible link?
Thanks for your help - hopefully Jaycar will be open for me tomorrow while I'm off mountain.
Cheers
Bennie