Considering engine swap in the Brum

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:10 pm

The current engines lack of power is now driving me insane, when I can't even hold 60 in 3rd gear up a steep hill where my wagon would accelerate, and it was 400kg's heavier

Not to mention the complete lack of any kind of acceleration and constant pinging.

I'm thinking these things are probably fixable, but I have no idea where to start looking for why it is so gutless (compression is really good, electronic ignition) Since I have a really good engine sitting around doing nothing I thought it would be easier to just swap it out (can do it in a day easy) But I have a (sort of) problem; the Brumby as it currently sits has a carbon canister, EGR system and all the hoses that go along with it. The other engine has none of this. Is it possible (legal?) to just pull all this stuff out so the other engine can go in? I have no experience with the dreaded emissions equipment so I don't know what does what. The ute is a 1984 car by the way.

If I can just leave all that gear out and drop the better engine straight in that's what I'll do after I put a kit through the carbie. And before anyone suggests it NO, the twin port is not going in the Brum

Not only could I not get it running reliably in a weekend I also don't have any kind of exhaust system for it, and the carbies both need rebuilding.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:48 pm

I wonder if it is a carb swap that is needed to repower your Brumby?

Don't let the RTA required charcoal cannister scare you off - has a max of four hoses!
One gets fumes from tank, another sends fumes off to be burnt, another is a vacuum control so it works at correct time, and if you have a fourth ???

Aw, shoot, dare i mention the performance may also be in the d i s t r i b u t o r ?

Rodeo4jake · Post by **Rodeo4jake** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:56 pm

G'day mate,
In answer to your question, technically all the emission controls fitted to the vehicle should be left in place. Having said that though, I would think it is safe to just remove it on ya Brumby. If you were unlucky enough to get stopped by the law on the road in a Brumby they would have no clue what should & shouldn't be under the bonnet. I've removed & blanked off heaps of gear under the bonnet of mine.
You are right about the current engine though, it shouldn't be that slow. I just have the EA81 in mine. When I got it, it was pretty slow too. After removing the gas kit I gave it all new spark plugs, leads, dizzy cap& rotor. Also new air & fuel filters. After that I went & filled up with BP ultimate & bumped the timing up to 10degrees. Now I'm pretty happy with the way it goes.
If you've tried everything I've just mentioned then I would do the engine swap.

Cheers Jake

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:23 pm

I have doubts there's anything wrong with the carb, it never fails to start, idles fine and I get 19L consumption for 300k's of traffic travel. I also half suspect the electronic dizzy but there isn't any play in the shaft and timing is spot on. It has near new plugs, leads and cap as well. If I left the canister in I don't think the other engine/carby would have the inlets necessary. And Jake I couldn't see the cops pulling over a stock standard brumby and you're right they wouldn't even know what they're looking at. It's strange that I need all this gear by law but my 81' year wagon just vented it's fuel tank straight to atmosphere, completely legal

I think I'll do the engine swap whatever happens. Then I have to get to fixing the shudder/vibration issue in the front end. Feeling like a wheel is about to fall off when coasting isn't very fun

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:56 pm

19 litres of petrol for 300km ? ~ 38l for 600km either I am jealous or 609 for 55l was considered good in my fresh EA81 which is ~ 9 litres per 100km

19 litres for 300km is 6.3l per 100k is it powerless coz it is running extra lean ??
If the dizy guts are not freely moving inside - no mechanical advance not much go ?

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:20 pm

steptoe wrote:19 litres for 300km is 6.3l per 100k is it powerless coz it is running extra lean ??

My thoughts exactly when I ready it's lacking power and pinging. After also reading it's getting this good MPG, then it might be time for a carby clean.

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:01 pm

Well I jokingly thought the MPG is so good because it's not making any power, now you say it could be the case? Does carby clean mean shoot some cleaner down the barrels or is a rebuild needed.

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:12 pm

Hey Sam, you could try some carby clean first (even try the old backfire trick if you know what to do) and if that doesn't fix it, then it might be carby rebuild time.

I just had my Brumby carby rebuilt just before I sold it. Man.. I really should have had it done a long time ago. It made a huge difference. The place that rebuilt it, also tuned it up on their Exhaust Gas Analyzer. Well worth the $450 bucks I paid them.

tambox · Post by **tambox** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:12 pm

Done your valve clearances/tappets?

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:58 pm

Haven't looked at the valve clearances, they're pretty quiet so I just leave them

It would be nice to get the carbie rebuilt professionally but dunno if I want to spend the money on it, plus the car needs to stay drive-able.

tambox · Post by **tambox** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:09 pm

Valve clearances quiet = small valve clearance = not good compression = crap power.
Valve faces and valve seats wear, closing the valve clearances.
Its only two bolts and a few minutes to check each side.
This is often neglected and I have seen engine swaps done because of this.

I have done the same motor swap as you, I just changed the long motor, kept original maninold, plumbing and those cast spacers on the exhaust. Had to take the studs out of the heads for the exhaust, as the cast spacers on mine bolted on.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:01 pm

not sure if i read right ..Paul, a much respected Subie mech a nic sent a carby away for a rebuild ??

Sam, have you whacked timing light on and watched from a safe distance to see if you get advance of timing marks when you wind up the revs a bit or provide lip suction to the vac advance can ?

These Hitachis are childs play to rekit, more so when you take many pics as you go.
But, take note tight valves can also cause gutlessness as suggested above.
Wait until Easter is over before exposing the inlet ports to anything harder than a marshmallow eh ?

60766244 · Post by **60766244** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:22 pm

Silverbullet wrote: ... I get 19L consumption for 300k's of traffic travel ...

Jealous as hell! Wow.

I average 400km (maybe 500km) off a tank. Usually it's not even hit 200km on the odo when I pass the 1/2 way mark.

This said, I have a heavy right foot...

Edit: That's in the Brumby with AWD, and the EJ22 w/out carb btw.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:41 pm

argh, here we go again, another accurate measure of a 'tank' - that is a 55 litre tank you have in that Brumby, see what you get from full to splutter empty and that EJ22 may surprise you.

Post by **TOONGA** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:11 pm

from 40 litres I got 400km to a spluttering stop in my brumby the other day and that was driving it like I normally do. remembering I have a carby and dizzy on my EJ22.

is that more accurate information Jonno

?

TOONGA

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:25 pm

steptoe wrote: Wait until Easter is over before exposing the inlet ports to anything harder than a marshmallow eh ?

BAHAHAHA thanks for reminding me! Better not touch this over easter lest we have a repeat of 2 years ago

:mrgreen:
Yeah I know how easy they are to rebuild, see above

I thought they had a 45L tank same as the wagon? I haven't looked at the vac advance unit either, this and the tappets and every other suggestion so far are mostly the little things I was thinking about that would add up to my gutless problem...hence why I was just gonna say to hell with it and swap the whole engine out

Would give me a good excuse to change the Y pipe gasket as well; coasting down hills with the windows open sees the cabin fill with exhaust fumes

Remember that I bought this car less than 6 months ago as "recently serviced" and the oil change sticker on the windscreen confirms this, as well as the new plugs, cap and clean oil. I guess there's no harm in checking the clearances unless I bust up the rocker cover gaskets...but there's no room under cover and it's too bloody hot in the sun to do anything for 2 weeks now

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:14 pm

steptoe wrote:not sure if i read right ..Paul, a much respected Subie mech a nic sent a carby away for a rebuild ??

You read correct Jonno. I sold my car just as I was returning to my other job and they wanted it straight away. They asked if it needed anything fixed and as I know them well, I thought I'd let them know about the A/C (needed regas) and Carby (that required rekitting), so I thought I'd get it done whilst away. I would do it myself but time was not on my side.

Saying this, I would not recommend rebuilding it yourself (Sam) unless you're really confident or have a spare one handy.

60766244 · Post by **60766244** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:44 am

steptoe wrote:argh, here we go again, another accurate measure of a 'tank' - that is a 55 litre tank you have in that Brumby, see what you get from full to splutter empty and that EJ22 may surprise you.

If I run it down to the empty line I seem to only be able to put 40ish liters in... I might have to check what's going on there...

Last time I ran it down too much I had to change the fuel filter the next day.

I shudder to think what's in there after 20 something years. Might try run it down and get back to you, and see what's in that tank too...

Sorry for the hijack.

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:55 am

steptoe wrote:argh, here we go again, another accurate measure of a 'tank' - that is a 55 litre tank you have in that Brumby, see what you get from full to splutter empty and that EJ22 may surprise you.

I was waiting for this ^^^

We should add it as a forum rule

Silverbullet wrote:I was just gonna say to hell with it and swap the whole engine out Would give me a good excuse to change the Y pipe gasket as well; coasting down hills with the windows open sees the cabin fill with exhaust fumes

Check the gearbox lever boot, I bet it has a hole in it - or you're missing a grommet on the firewall somewhere. You may have an exhaust leak but you must also have a "cabin leak" too...

I think the wagons had a slightly larger tank than the brumbys too - from memory.

Cheers

Bennie

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:05 pm

El_Freddo wrote: Check the gearbox lever boot, I bet it has a hole in it - or you're missing a grommet on the firewall somewhere. You may have an exhaust leak but you must also have a "cabin leak" too...

I think the wagons had a slightly larger tank than the brumbys too - from memory.

Cheers

Bennie

Nope, gear lever boot is tip top. It only happens when coasting down hills with the window(s) down. Windows up and no smell at all. Perhaps there's some amazing fluke of aerodynamics that pulls air from under the car straight into the windows

Paul I am pretty confident I can rebuild the carb, I've done it before...it just didn't end well because of another totally unrelated reason

read; test fitting the carbie and thinking "hey that fits well I'll just bolt it down and test it" without removing the rag that stopped nuts and bolts falling down the intake

It ran amazingly well for all of about 3 seconds until the rag got wrapped around #3 intake valve and into the cylinder...

If I'm going to rebuild a carbie I would do it to my spare engine and just put the whole engine in that way the Brumby isn't out of action.