Combining gear sets

[Scoobie Doobie]

Forgive my ignorance as i'm only starting to research this but can a turbo gear set out of a liberty/forseter/impreza be combined with a non-turbo dual range casing with the ability of keeping the dual range function???

what would be involved???

would it be necessary to change from a cable clutch to a hydraulic type?

would the diff ration need to change?

regards

adam

[AlpineRaven]

Forgive my ignorance as i'm only starting to research this but can a turbo gear set out of a liberty/forseter/impreza be combined with a non-turbo dual range casing with the ability of keeping the dual range function???

what would be involved???

would it be necessary to change from a cable clutch to a hydraulic type?

would the diff ration need to change?

regards

adam

You can just take the gearset out and mix-n-match, as long its pre 1999 gearbox - are you referring to 5th gear? All you need is the gearset from turbo box. I have one at home if you're interested I think its 0.78:1 (will confirm when I get home later this week if you're interested).

If you want to change the diff ratio - you can just change the diff and pinion in the gearbox as well.
See my gearbox 1.59 low range thread to give you an idea but i know i havent commented anywhere in question youre asking.
Cheers
AP

[Scoobie Doobie]

Sorry AP, I should have made it a bit clearer, I have a 92 n/a dual range liberty box sitting behind a turbo engine. the gearbox is cable operated and lately its been giving me a bit of grief. I'm a pretty lazy driver so haven't punished the gearbox at all but lately i'm finding it hard to get into 1st, when rolling or stopped, reverse gear always crunches and the box itself has sprung a leak, near passenger side inner cv. my concern is that the higher output of the motor might have something to do with all this.

its becoming obvious to me that the gearbox will obviously need to be looked at and as a means of future proofing this (i only really want to do this once), i was wondering if the turbo gears (1st thru to 5th), being stronger and more reliable, were interchangeable and whether this would alter anything

sorry bit new at this

You can just take the gearset out and mix-n-match, as long its pre 1999 gearbox - are you referring to 5th gear? All you need is the gearset from turbo box. I have one at home if you're interested I think its 0.78:1 (will confirm when I get home later this week if you're interested).

If you want to change the diff ratio - you can just change the diff and pinion in the gearbox as well.
See my gearbox 1.59 low range thread to give you an idea but i know i havent commented anywhere in question youre asking.
Cheers
AP

[AlpineRaven]

Sorry AP, I should have made it a bit clearer, I have a 92 n/a dual range liberty box sitting behind a turbo engine. the gearbox is cable operated and lately its been giving me a bit of grief. I'm a pretty lazy driver so haven't punished the gearbox at all but lately i'm finding it hard to get into 1st, when rolling or stopped, reverse gear always crunches and the box itself has sprung a leak, near passenger side inner cv. my concern is that the higher output of the motor might have something to do with all this.

its becoming obvious to me that the gearbox will obviously need to be looked at and as a means of future proofing this (i only really want to do this once), i was wondering if the turbo gears (1st thru to 5th), being stronger and more reliable, were interchangeable and whether this would alter anything

sorry bit new at this

Ah no worries... I would start looking around other areas ie. gears shifter and the clutch cable/clutch (doubt it the clutch because you would have issues in other gears) Do you have problems with 3rd and 5th? (because 1st & 3rd shares same linkage & 5th shares same as reverse)
Have you recently changed the gearbox oil? I would recommend redline oil (but if the fresh oil feels better then it would be worth putting redline oil in)
Is the gearbox noisy? last option is the gearbox would be on its way out.
Cheers
AP

[tambox]

As long as your gearbox is not noisy (bearing noise), it sounds like the clutch might be dragging.
Does it go into 1st/rev more easily with the motor turned off?

The gearsets are mostly interchangeable, depends on if you want to change ratios.
From what I have seen, there are some, possibly Turbo, casings, where the reverse gear idler shaft is in a slightly different position. You cannot use the common gear sets in these and vise versa. One way, you cannot get it into reverse, the other, you have to much slop in reverse. Box will fit together with either set in it.
Be carefull of that, as it is only a very small casting difference.

[AlpineRaven]

Another thing to add the question above - hydraulic clutch & Cable you cant change it because the casing is different.
Cheers
AP

[Scoobie Doobie]

As long as your gearbox is not noisy (bearing noise), it sounds like the clutch might be dragging.

tambox, the gearbox isn't noisy apart obviously from the crunching when selecting reverse, can you explain the dragging principle a little more, i'm curious

Does it go into 1st/rev more easily with the motor turned off?

yes it does go into 1st/rev easier with the motor turned off, does that suggest linkage problem????

AP, 3rd and 5th seem ok, again no noise or effort in selecting those gears but now that i think about it 5th sometimes does slip out under acceleration! The oil was changed in it september last year

And...

can the leaking seal on the passenger side output shaft be replaced without pulling the gearbox apart.

cheers

adam

[AlpineRaven]

tambox, the gearbox isn't noisy apart obviously from the crunching when selecting reverse, can you explain the dragging principle a little more, i'm curious



yes it does go into 1st/rev easier with the motor turned off, does that suggest linkage problem????

AP, 3rd and 5th seem ok, again no noise or effort in selecting those gears but now that i think about it 5th sometimes does slip out under acceleration! The oil was changed in it september last year

And...

can the leaking seal on the passenger side output shaft be replaced without pulling the gearbox apart.

cheers

adam

I would say you have linkage problem or not enough oil in the gearbox to select.

leaky seal - yes it can be done without spliting the gearbox. involves removing CV joint as well. You'll have to undo the locking unit that is holding the hub in, mark it both on the hub and gearbox to re-align and unscrew and count how many per turn as you're taking it off. There is a seal on the hub (hub needs to be removed because the seal is on other side) once new seal is fitted you need to count how many turns as you found it and make it little tighter. Ive done that twice in 2 Subarus (one seal spring failure and other one was worn seal) and has been good since.
Cheers
AP

[El_Freddo]

I don't think you'll be able to combine the turbo's gearset with the dual range - 1st and 2nd are cast on the upper shaft which for the turbo is solid through to the output shaft. The dual range is not one piece to the output shaft due to the design of the dual range setup on the input shaft.

As for what Tambox was saying - I too think it's your clutch still grabbing when you've got your foot all the way down on the pedal. Adjust it or check out what's causing the issue - new clutch already maybe?

Cheers

Bennie

[AlpineRaven]

I don't think you'll be able to combine the turbo's gearset with the dual range - 1st and 2nd are cast on the upper shaft which for the turbo is solid through to the output shaft. The dual range is not one piece to the output shaft due to the design of the dual range setup on the input shaft.

As for what Tambox was saying - I too think it's your clutch still grabbing when you've got your foot all the way down on the pedal. Adjust it or check out what's causing the issue - new clutch already maybe?

Cheers

Bennie

Do a simple test - while stationary - put the gear in 5th and try drive your car, if your clutch is right out without stalling is an indication of worn clutch.
Cheers
AP

[tambox]

Cutch Dragging is a description of a clutch fault, the clutch is not releasing properly.It could be
1. The cultch pedal/cable system is not operating the clutch fully, due a. Not adjusted properly, b, Something in the pedal/cable system worn/failing.
2. Pressure plate is starting to fail, fingers/worn/broken/loosing tension.
3 Clutch plate faulty/broken/twisted.

You cannot change 1,2,R gears between a dual range and single range, (correct Bennie).

If it is popping out of 5the gear, usually pionts towards the bearing on the end of the input shaft, starting to fail. (usually) This the most common bearing to fail in Subaru boxes. Dragging clutch will make it harder to hear/work out gearbox noise.

Turbo hey, renowned for wrecking clutches and gearboxes, all by themselves:-D

[stork955]

G'day, Tambox is right, your clutch is dragging. It means that it is not disengaging fully. do the easy check as suggested above -try selecting first and reverse with the engine off. After that check your clutch adjustment first - you should have about 3mm of travel at the fork before it begins to contact the cable. If that is OK, The cable may be stretching (very unlikely), The fork itself could be damaged/worn, The pressure plate fingers could be worn/broken, the clutch plate could be sticking on the splines(Most likely as they are never lubricated properly) or the spigot bearing could be failing, causing the input shaft to spin, even while the clutch is in. These things require the box to be out to check.

Cheers,

Stork

[Scoobie Doobie]

Hey guys,

thanks for all your advice, its nice to see people taking the time out to assist others and doing it in a sincere way, I always learn something new from this forum,

anyways, tried the 5th gear start, and the engine stalls quite violently, so its not the clutch, i will adjust the clutch cable tension after work and see how that pans out, also checked the oil this morning, all good there too.

it might be a little beyond me at this stage, i can probably live with it till the next service and get the mechanic to have a look at it then

oh the joys of owning modified vehicles, hee hee hee

regards

adam

[AlpineRaven]

Hey guys,

thanks for all your advice, its nice to see people taking the time out to assist others and doing it in a sincere way, I always learn something new from this forum,

anyways, tried the 5th gear start, and the engine stalls quite violently, so its not the clutch, i will adjust the clutch cable tension after work and see how that pans out, also checked the oil this morning, all good there too.

it might be a little beyond me at this stage, i can probably live with it till the next service and get the mechanic to have a look at it then

oh the joys of owning modified vehicles, hee hee hee

regards

adam

This is what we do on this forum!! Help and share others out - and greater excuse - I am stuck in hospital on a drip (blood inflection) been happening for last 4 months, hence which is why I'm on a lot lately!! Otherwise rarely here because of work and family commitments!

Also check if the clutch lever or brackets arent bent. You can adjust it, if you run out of adjustment you could put penny washer in as a test to see if you can get more out of it, by installing a washer in is a sign something isnt right.

Another thought - may not be relevant - was the turbo engine swap done recently?
Cheers
AP