EA81 odd smoker?

Subydoug · Post by **Subydoug** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:22 am

Hi everyone,

I realise there is about 3 or 4 EA81 threads on the first page at the moment but none of them really adress my question so I figured Id start my own.

Got an old wagon. Been driving it around for the last 10-15k kms. Last Monday on the way back into Perth I had it overheat on me. Unsure why she overheated. I thought it was either the Head gasket or the intake manifold. However its far more likely that either my thermostat stuck or I got some crud under the radiator cap.

These last few days Ive noticed that It chuffs some serious smoke, but only under very specific conditions. I can drive it around and I wont see a whiff of smoke, but If I accellerate hard, say to about 3500rpm, then snap the throttle off and let it coast, after about 10-15sec, if puffs out that much smoke that I cant even see out of the rear window.
Did a compression test and came up with all cylinders at the 120psi mark hot. 140psi cold. Obviously the motors on its last legs.

My thoughs are When I shut the butterfly the manifold vacuum is pulling oil into the cylinders, either via the valve stem seals, or around the pistons, or even through a corroded part of the head. Has anyone ever heard of this before or know exactly what could be going on? Im really reluctant to rebuild her because Ive already put enough money into the car.

After I finish typing this Im gonna go out and put some oil down the cylinder and re-do a compression test. If it goes up substantially then my rings are the problem, If it doesnt really change much, its more likely my valves or head gasket.

Few other things to note. There are no exaust gasses in the coolant and no coolant in the oil. Sparkplugs look good, nice and tanned. I dropped the oil that was in it and replaced it with some straight 30 weight to see if I can pull a few more KM's out of her.

Anyone got any Idea's?

Regards

Doug

Post by **TOONGA** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:39 am

The symptoms you are describing are more than likely the valve stems, the seals and the rings.

TOONGA

Subydoug · Post by **Subydoug** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:37 am

Hey TOONGA,

Hmm yeah Im thinking valve seals and guides. Putting a healthy amount of oil in the bore didnt change the compression at all. Hmmm. I also noted thismorning that there was what looked like small chunks of orange sealant in the coolant....Something is not happy.

Doug

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:37 pm

I would be pointing at rings. Or a blown the head gasket - but all pots are at the same PSI, which is really low IMO. I'm thinking it's the rings

Cheers

Bennie

Subydoug · Post by **Subydoug** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:03 pm

Your probably right. The car has ~340k on it so its not exactly new. Im gonna see if I can pull the heads off this weekend. I have a full gasket set for the motor and a spare car so there's really nothing to lose.

Regards

Doug

littlewhiteute · Post by **littlewhiteute** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:26 pm

Generally, any engine when overheated loses ring tension.

I've pulled engines down where the rings can be wound up like a pretzel and still not break.

Effectively they are just like a piece of ordinary non-spring steel wire that can't exert tension within the cylinder.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:34 pm

No such thing as an EA81 on its last legs

You sound like you know enough to reason with self as to what this was caused by, and what will fix it. EA81 only had valve stem seals on INs or EX's, can't recall which.
Once had a Mazda that had worn guides , blew oil smoke like crazy until warming up, was fine until next cool down. Had to keep it warm until sold

littlewhiteute · Post by **littlewhiteute** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:52 pm

Inlets only.

Subydoug · Post by **Subydoug** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:43 pm

Yep Inlets only. The motor didnt really overheat, I probably should have worded that better. I just noticed that at one stage I glanced down and it was about 3/4 the way up the gauge. This sorta set me on edge a bit because it usually hangs around at the 1/4 mark. I spent the rest of the drive fighting to keep the temp down and when I eventually got home I could hear the water boiling into the overflow. It hasnt boiled sense then, however, this crap with the smoking has started. A few other things to note. The motor feels, sounds, acts exactly as it used to. Motor doesnt miss under load or no load, high rpm or idle. It will idle smoothly at 600rpm. I can pull it into reverse and it wont even move

. Gotta love them webers.

See, thats the thing, It doesnt smoke when cold. It only smokes after a high manifold vac at high RPM. Ive wafted the fumes into my face and cant smell oil. Doesnt smoke at highway speeds. Thats what baffled me. And when she does smoke its like a friggn smoke machine. Complete loss of visibility out the rear window.

Seemed like an odd thing. All cylinders are within 10psi of eachother, which I though made it unlikely to be a head gasket. When I get it back, Il stick my good diagnostic vac gauge on it and see what it tells me. A shaky needle at around 800-1000rpm but smooths out as rpm increases indicates worn valve guides.

Regards

Doug

taza · Post by **taza** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:00 pm

My new motor is similar to this but it doesn't matter how I drive it, or even when cruising it pours out smoke....

Probably oil rings and/or valve stem seals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1F7xE8507I

revmax · Post by **revmax** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:22 pm

Taza how new is that motor. Ya gotta wonder if they put the compression rings in the wrong way or forgot the oil rings.

subydog. My first thought were rings have lost tension but If it didnt actualy over heat but still got pretty hot the oil may have lost its lubricating ability and my be thinner.
Give it an oil and filter change before opening her up for surgery.

Subydoug · Post by **Subydoug** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:23 pm

Hmm, yeah....What does yours smell like? kinda got a burning rubber smell to it?

taza · Post by **taza** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:37 pm

Revmax, it's just clocked over 200,000km. I got it with 188,000km, ran fine for the first 11k km in my car then within one week its like so

I'm yet to decide what to do with the POS car..

Mine just smells like your driving past a rubbish tip, I wouldn't say it smells like rubber. Just disgusting, but there would be a mix of fuel/oil smell in it.
What about yours? It's odd that it overheated too..

Subydoug · Post by **Subydoug** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:37 pm

Revmax, yeah I did an oil and filter change already. I went to a straight 30 weight in the hope that the thicker oil might be harder to get past the worn out parts. Just had a look at my gasket kit and I do have some valve seals and guides. Might pop the heads off and have a look at everything. Hone the barrels, new ring and pistons if needed. Im drawn to the Idea of fixing the motor because then Il know what condition it is in and I really like this car

.
Here's a question Im not to sure about. I do believe the large plugs in the side of the cylinders are to remove the gudgeon pin so the pistons can come out without removing the blocks. Is this correct or do I have to pull off the barrels?

Taza, Only ask because Ive smelt oil burning cars before but mine has this funny burnt rubber smell to it. To the point that I checked I hadn't got a plastic bag on the exaust somewhere. Yours deffinately looks like oil but coolant can also make "smoke" , actually steam, come outa your tail pipe if coolant is getting into the exaust somehow. Maybe just check your coolant and oil levels reguarly. Also, maybe pull your plugs and have a look at them. Maybe you've got a crook valve in one cylinder, and if its burning oil in that cylinder, the plug will show. Likewise, coolant will give a greenish tinge (if it is coolant, not water). If it is a crook valve it wont be long untill it burns out and then you'l drop a cylinder.

Regards

Doug

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:01 am

PCV circuit ?? Disconnect all possible hoses of PCV to the inlet manifold for a test run. I bought a very sweet running EA82T off a member who really had no opportunity to test drive it himself in the Vort he bought as a wreck, even though the 'import' engine had just been fitted (think his previous owner was ripped off)
It was the strongest EA82T I have driven - it had a weakness in that up mountain climbs it would suddenly turn into the batmobile with smoke screen and still pulled well, just panic on drivers face

. Still to tear it down to nspect rings but suspect it was blow by pressure building in crankcase and blowing oil up the baffled breather plate at the back of the block and up the rear PCV hose of mpfi EA82's and off to the intake. I tried a catch can but only copped a can full of hot bubbling oil spilling out over my test mountain track !

With my EA81's I sometime catch a small cloud of smoke after a quick riight turn of largish roundabout.

Subydoug · Post by **Subydoug** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:10 pm

Steptoe, I will look into the PCV system. I double checked air flow through the sump yesterday. There is deffinately a positive flow from one rocker cover to the other.

Actually, yesterday I drove it up the freeway, it was the first HWY speed Id done since it oveetemped. When I got to joondalup I could hear air bubbling into my overflow again. Something is deffinately dodgy with this cooling system. Just flushed it all out and now Im going to pop the intake manifold off and have a peep at the gaskets there. I noticed yesterday on the plugs there was some little shades of green on them. Hmmm Looks like coolant to me.

off topic, I had it up north in around AJS yesterday arvo, looking for some spots to launch our UAS's with some buddies. Man this little subie is good in soft sand!

Anyway, off to pull the scoobie apart.

Regards

Doug

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:22 pm

Looks to be in great condition! With a sun roof as well. What does UAS stand for?

Be careful with those intake manifold bolts if you suspect a leak there; the coolant can cause the bolts to rust and fuse themselves into the head...or they just fuse themselves in place without coolant anyway

Post by **TOONGA** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:00 pm

Doug the "large plugs" are for the removal of the gudgeons

stolen from this thread on USMB about an EA81 rebuild.

TOONGA

Subydoug · Post by **Subydoug** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:41 pm

Silverbullet, cheers mate, Intake manifold came off, easy as pie. Everything came loose with a nice crack. Got both heads off, found the problem. There is a small section of the Headgasket burnt through on cylinder #2. Straight into the water jacket. I imagine that the low cylinder compression was about equal to the coolant pressure when hot while driving around the city. AT 100kmh I think is when it started to blow the coolant out of the radiator. The smoke Im seeing isnt smoke. Its steam. During the high manifold vac Im sucking water into the cylinder. Oh well, mystery solved. I got two new head gaskets here, and the rest. Now Im tossing up if I should replace the pistons and rings.......TOONGA, is it easy to get the pistons out while the engine is in the car?

Regards

Doug

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:46 pm

Subydoug wrote: Now Im tossing up if I should replace the pistons and rings.......TOONGA, is it easy to get the pistons out while the engine is in the car?

Regards

Doug

I know I'm not TOONGA

but you can't take the pistons out while engine is in the car; the access holes for the rear two pistons gudgeon pins are behind the flywheel housing which is bolted to the back of the block. Also access hole for #2 piston (front) is behind the water pump and a real pain to remove.