L series G Box differences (S1 to S2)

[Smokey]

Is there a difference between L series manual gearboxes S1 to S2?

See this add. They state its for "1987 onwards only". But why, whats the diff? 1987 would be the start of S2 of the L's.

Secondly if the Gbox "ïs" different, so too must be some other part, cross members, chassis etc?

[TOONGA]

they are probably going on the fact that it is a 3.7 ratio box not a 3.9 ratio box

only thing I can think of ... anyone else?

TOONGA

[dwayneb]

Would the early L's be single range 4wd only, or was this just the poverty pack that got the single range 4wd?

[steptoe]

does the VIN JF2AN specify the difference between mpfi 25 spline and carby 23 spline ? That's be the major difference apart from the random allocation of diff ratios 3.7 or 3.9.

The gearbox out of my make date 11/87 touring wagon is pleased with its newest home of my 85 make date GLTA sedan for some four years or so now

If you are interested in it, send 'em a message asking if it will fit yours , if not why not

[Smokey]

Thanks for the replies guys. I think the carb engine'd cars had 23 spline, EFI 25.
3.7 vs 3.9 was a bit all over the place from what I have read. Dwayneb, not sure on the single vs dual range. Most likely to be option/model related.

Steptoe Im glad to hear you have a 87 (S2) in a 85 (S1) shell. That's exactly what I have done and am still having issues with things lining up. Just cant see what/where the issue is. With rego looming I need to get this sorted.

Im thinking of dropping the engine X member and all front end running gear and see if that helps, use that off the S2 shell. Currently have the engine (EA82 carb) and S2 5 speed in the S1 shell (which was originally an auto).

[El_Freddo]

Would the early L's be single range 4wd only, or was this just the poverty pack that got the single range 4wd?

Nah there was both single and dual range available. I believe the S1's were all 3.9 ratio though.

Is there a difference between L series manual gearboxes S1 to S2?

See this add. They state its for "1987 onwards only". But why, whats the diff? 1987 would be the start of S2 of the L's.

Secondly if the Gbox "ïs" different, so too must be some other part, cross members, chassis etc?

The gearboxes will be physically the same, they will bolt in to either shell without any issues. The difference is in the diff ratio - poor advertising on their part, swap the rear diff and you're sorted. The other difference is that the advertised gearbox is dual range where as some of the S1 gearboxes were single range only - "push button 4wd" models.

Thanks for the replies guys. I think the carb engine'd cars had 23 spline, EFI 25.

Correct. The turbo is also 25 spline, the drive shafts are different in the inner cups which are larger.

3.7 vs 3.9 was a bit all over the place from what I have read. Dwayneb, not sure on the single vs dual range. Most likely to be option/model related.

I believe the 3.9 was only available pre '87, a few may have been around in 87 but I think this was the phase out period.

Steptoe Im glad to hear you have a 87 (S2) in a 85 (S1) shell. That's exactly what I have done and am still having issues with things lining up. Just cant see what/where the issue is.

So what's not lining up? I'm keen to help nut this one out

Cheers

Bennie

[Smokey]

So what's not lining up? I'm keen to help nut this one out

Cheers

Bennie

Thanks Bennie, I do need a set of fresh eyes. I'm at work and its time to knock off. I'll reply in a few hours time. If your super keen there is a fair bit already in previous posts I have started.

[steptoe]

then there was the manual shift to 4WD with levers, the others were switch and solenoid affair ???? Maaayyybe this is the difference they are thinking of specifying the year model ???. The L box in my 84 Brumby came from a 92 carby, 3.7:1 diif

[Smokey]

So I have a S2 Manual carb touring wagon its an 88 body. Captively nutted. I attempted a fix but was not quite as thorough as your job Bennie

So I buys a S1 85 touring wagon is great nic, had 126K. But its an auto, push button 4wd single range. Both cars were white.

So I does the manual conversion putting the 88 engine and gbox 5 spd dual range and the matching diff and drive shaft into the S1 85 shell. Seems to be going well, however the shifter linkages are about 2.5cm forward. I give up and cut the shifter well on the floor of the car, and extend the rear linkages rubber offset plate that holds the shifter assy to the under side of the tranny well.

All seems good, passes blue slip. But something is not right and its worse with the lift in. Lift is solid alloy blocks all round. Well everywhere they can be right. all the same 2 inch/50mm.
So I attempts to do small things to fix strange feeling.
Strange feeling is a looseness or pretty severe flex mostly when accelerating/decelerating. Going over bumps in neutral seems fine.

I had to jump start the car a few days in a row. Though for sure I was going to tear something apart. I think that the movement is at the gbox cross member. "Something" is causing it to move back and forward/up and down. Fingers under the 4x4 selector, from a standstill or low speed under full acceleration (webber EA82 300K + its not a powerhouse...) is almost painful with the pressure the lever pushes down on ur hand. when off load, it rides back to normal position. No lift to the back of shifter linkage assy, so I have used about 2cm of washers to space it down. Also had to drop a custom bolt in there, though not sure If im using it now or the original one. The back of the box seems to move a fair bit.

Now the stay bar from firewall to engine is tight and the welds seem good. Its a longer one from memory that was already in the 3" lifted 88 S2. Giving its a solid shake, everything seems tight.
Engine mounts also swapped along with the Gbox mounts.
Radius rods have Nolathane bushes. Though I feel this is an area that may be a issue. Not sure why I say that, just that its the general area where the issue seems to be.

Inner lower control arm bushes are new. Ball joints, tie end rods are all original to my knowledge (130K ish).

Hand on engine each side/head, give her a shake and the whole car shakes almost as much as the engine. Engine seems to be mounted to the car fine.

I have recently had the engine out to do the head gaskets. Same before and after engine out.

Car parked, hand brake on, push car back and forward in drive (flat concrete) and it feels like she is moving a bit too much, like something is not tight enough. Not hubs but back to front, Radius Rods again I cant but help thinking.

I have done a lot of tinkering with this car and the previous over the years but Im no mechanic, I read and take my time and work through things. But this has me stumped.

Im almost at the point of driving to the closest forum member who can help me nut this out.

Please help me guys, im lost!

[steptoe]

Colin, I no had any lift block experience, but mistakes with the engine stabiliser to body has caused me some grief but it is to the point of not being really driveable and hardly lets me out the driveway.Have you tried both extremes of adjustment ?

Odd you needed to cutaway at the floor for the shifter and its rubber mount ??. Only had to do that with the 5 speed into my Brumby.

I'm curious as to what measures you have from say between your crank pulley and radiator....

Is the exhaust also under some tension from the transfer/conversion??

Thought you were talking of lift kit removal to see,

[El_Freddo]

I would say that you need to check out the radius rod plate area as you've suspected.

The bolt that holds the radius rod mount plate and the gearbox crossmember should have a rubber bush on the gearbox crossmember, inside this rubber mount should be a sleeve that allows the whole thing to be compressed to a certain point. If this sleeve is missing or the bush is shagged out you might feel like something is moving. If you've not got a bush and sleeve in there this is certainly not right.

The other things to check in this area are the captive nut's integrity. Check for cracking around/near the captive nuts. If that's all good make sure the bolts are up to correct torque spec.

The gearbox mounts - new or second hand? If second hand are you able to move the gearbox significantly with the aid of some sort of lever between the crossmember and the bottom of the gearbox itself?

Also check the engine crossmember bolt's torque setting too. Other than that I'm stumped for now.

then there was the manual shift to 4WD with levers, the others were switch and solenoid affair ???? Maaayyybe this is the difference they are thinking of specifying the year model ???

The lever is dual range, the switch and solenoid affair is single range only

Cheers

Bennie

[Smokey]

SOLVED SOLVED SOLVED SOLVED SOLVED SOLVED SOLVED

I cant tell you all how much this has been doing my head in. Has been going on for like 2 years almost. I did a trip to Moreton Island and went through the fun of a Blue Slip etc. So it was ok to pass all this but was certainly not right. And when the battery was flat "clutch starting"...OMG thought the car was going to rip in 2.

The bolt that holds the radius rod mount plate and the gearbox crossmember should have a rubber bush on the gearbox crossmember, inside this rubber mount should be a sleeve that allows the whole thing to be compressed to a certain point. If this sleeve is missing or the bush is shagged out you might feel like something is moving. If you've not got a bush and sleeve in there this is certainly not right.

You were so close its not funny Bennie!!!! Looking at pic below. There are two rubber bushes, one on top of the radius rod mount plate and one underneath. The sleeve goes through both with the gear box cross member in between. The bolt then goes up through the sleeve and locks hard up against the body or lift block for those with lifts.



I found this while pulling the parts bitch apart to have it scrapped. Not much was left on it. But there were two odd looking rubber bushes (light bulb turns on at this point) being used as a radius rod bush (try to keep it together so its movable when necessary). I have pulled most parts of the car appart more than once, so I know the size of most bolts and nuts and what most parts look like. So these two rubber bushes stood out like dogs balls.

Anyway pulled the two bolts and put these two bushes in laughing at myself. Was certain at this point I had it solved. The book says 118nm. I did them up tight by hand and switched to torque wrench but stopped before she hit 118, just felt way too tight. Does everyone else torque these up to spec or did I read that part wrong?

So a few years back (insert OMG's and rofl's) when I did the auto to manual conversion I didn't put that part back together correctly. Note with the lift out it makes little difference.

I was so relieved (1040pm) I went and filled her up with PULP (always use the 98 RON) at, wait for it...$1.72/L and it was worth every cent. So happy, I have my baby back.

Thanks as always for everyone helps and not just in this one post. I have started a few about the same topic just different ideas all relating to the same issue.

[Smokey]

...and yes I have the most fully sickest ever bullbar in the world!!!

[El_Freddo]

That's the one! Awesome news and I'm glad it was something so simple. Just painful that it took so long to sort it out.

And $1.72/L That's just insane

Enjoy the new feeling that your L is going to stay together, this enjoy is not for the fuel price!

Cheers

Bennie

[steptoe]

TWO YEARS !! What's that ..? 730 odd sleepless nights. Well done and bet you are happy you did not resort to paying some transmission joint to find it for you.
T'was pretty big of you to come in and admit it may have been your making....others have been known to skulk away quietly

[2nd Hand Yank]

My L Series is 3.7
Can I easily convert mine to a 3.9 by changing the driveshaft spline count?
Or even higher preferably... 4.1? 4.4?

I thought I'd need to change the ring-and-pinions both front and rear.

[MTB92]

My L Series is 3.7
Can I easily convert mine to a 3.9 by changing the driveshaft spline count?
Or even higher preferably... 4.1? 4.4?

one rotation is one rotation, it doesn't matter how many 'splines' are on the shaft it still rotates the same!!

[steptoe]

You thought correctly first time

[El_Freddo]

My L Series is 3.7
Can I easily convert mine to a 3.9 by changing the driveshaft spline count?
Or even higher preferably... 4.1? 4.4?

I thought I'd need to change the ring-and-pinions both front and rear.

You do need to change the front and rear diff ratios - and for L series it's either 3.7 or 3.9. The only way to go to 4.11 or 4.44 is to go to an EJ gearbox or workout how to do a cut and shut - very difficult and even more so on the EA as the pinion shaft is solid with the lower gearsets. The drive shaft spline count is just that - a drive shaft spline number

one rotation is one rotation, it doesn't matter how many 'splines' are on the shaft it still rotates the same!!

Totally.

Yankee (the canadian one) It's probably best to do some research then start another thread with any questions you have unanswered

Cheers

Bennie

[2nd Hand Yank]

You thought correctly first time

Thanks. I suppose the different spline count went with the 3.9, but was not the cause of it. Makes sense.