R160 Locker project

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taza
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R160 Locker project

Post by taza » Mon May 09, 2011 8:25 pm

Well most of you guys know how much a locker would help in a Subaru offroad. I know as do most of you that open diffs are a pain in the arse when your stuck in a rut. I have contacted so many companies about coming up with a locker for the R160 diff but the replys come back saying 'we need 500 people to pay up front to create one', 'the diff isnt strong enough to support a locker', etc...
Also after many hours of research I have found very few solutions. I know there are Cusco LSD's and a open to lsd conversion product called Phantom Grip. but at the cost of good LSD's your looking at $2000+

I have been talking with Carl (carljwnc) at offroad Subarus (http://www.offroadsubarus.com). He lives in America but is willing to give it a crack at actually building one. He said to me that if I can come up with a design he will try to build it. I have the spare time, software and most of the skills to design and use CAD modelling programs. I also have moderate knowledge of how 'a differential', lsd's and air lockers work. I dont know and havent played physically with a R160 or Subaru diff. A rear locker could be easier as the front diff is part of the gearbox, with my Forester AWD anyway.

Im sure there is someone out there who knows the diffs very well and could help me via the internet, skype, phone and in person to come up with a design for an air locker.

This would be an ongoing project that could/would take months. If anyone is interested in helping please send me a pm. I am quite serious in giving this a go.

Regards
Taza

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El_Freddo
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Post by El_Freddo » Mon May 09, 2011 8:52 pm

I'd love to be personally involved with this but again have little experience with producing something like this.

If I was able to do something Like this I would love to keep it an aussie produced/"invention" but if someone like carl can work his magic with a block of steel and come up with something to do the job it would be a huge advantage offraod!

One of the ideas floating around was to get an arb locker, crc it (whatever that stands for) then shrink it to the size that would fit the r160. Then it would just be a matter of a company or companies producing the various parts for assembly.

I've had the exact same responses too.

Cheers

Bennie
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taza
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Post by taza » Mon May 09, 2011 9:01 pm

^ Thats exactly what I was thinking about an ARB style locker. But it couldn't be exactly the same due to copyright issues.

I really just need someone who can help me out with dimensions and creating the locking mechanism. I have no idea what the R160 looks like inside.
If someone has a spare R160 open diff I could use or have to gather dimensions and use to work with. Or a blown one would be of some help even.
I am a very quick learner so any info people through at me will be helpful.

Taza

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El_Freddo
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Post by El_Freddo » Mon May 09, 2011 9:16 pm

Dunno about copy right - it will be an R160 air locker, I dunno how ARB would hold up against a copy right issues since they won't go near an R160...

Cheers

Bennie
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Post by d_generate » Tue May 10, 2011 3:13 am

I've just posted this bit of arse crawling to OBX, see if they reply.

Hi Guys,
First off thank you for making a great well priced product but I think you are doing a massive disservice by advertising your OBX Helical Subaru front diffs as fitting 02 - 07 only, they will fit any "5" speed Legacy/Liberty from 1989 onward or Impreza/Outback/Forester from 93 whether it be single or dual range, I have one in my dual range Legacy box which is fitted to my 94 WRX............Anyhow, what I'm suggesting is you develop a helical diff for the Subaru rear R160 & R180 differentials, because these cars are so popular worldwide for both track and off road use I'm sure there would be a huge market for a well priced product like yours.
I use mine for off road use and it's brilliant but we are lacking a well priced center & rear to match.
Regards,
Tom H
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H-top
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Post by H-top » Tue May 10, 2011 6:54 am

Fingers crossed mate
H-Top

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taza
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Post by taza » Tue May 10, 2011 9:34 am

Thanks for the info Tom.

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taza
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Post by taza » Tue May 10, 2011 5:48 pm

Ok Im in need of an R160 open rear diff or at the least a diff housing. Even a blown diff would be of some help. I cant really pull mine out of my Forester as I kinda need it :rolleyes:
Anyone got one lying around in the shed that they dont want or need?

It would be good for this to be an Aussie design ;)

Also is anyone on here an engineer or mechanical engineer?

Oh Bennie im so jelous of Ruby Scoo. Your L-Series has actually inspired me to give this a go after seeing some of the things you have been able to do. Think what would be possible with a locked rear diff but being better than welded as its still drivable onroad :)


Taza

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subalex
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Post by subalex » Tue May 10, 2011 7:54 pm

You've got my encouragement fellas. I've already moved on from my L-series and miss it still. Dang it all though, you could have had my old 3.9 ratio diff a couple of months ago. It's gone now. This discussion and prospect has come up so many times over the years it's sickening but I hope your results are more promising.
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taza
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Post by taza » Tue May 10, 2011 8:24 pm

^ Thanks for the encouragement Subalex. I know its come up on many forums over the years, I have done more hours of reading than I can count. I just need someone who has a better understanding than me of the R160 diff. I will garrantee that something even if its a better head start for someone else will come from this.
Too bad about the diff, that would of been good. I dont really want to pay $200+ for one....

Taza

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taza
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Post by taza » Tue May 10, 2011 10:57 pm

After looking in detail at the ARB Air locker it wont be too complicated to create something similar. Just the right size for the R160. Once I get a diff I can work out sizes and start the design.

Still looking for a diff....

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Cheers
Taza

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FujiFan
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Post by FujiFan » Tue May 10, 2011 11:14 pm

Who says it needs to be an "Air Locker", check this out.http://www.oppositelock.com.au/prodcata ... 2944_1.jpg

Hope I got this rite;)

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guyph_01
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Post by guyph_01 » Tue May 10, 2011 11:32 pm

I'll supply the diff if that guaranties me a cost price on the final locker:)

I can give you one thats complete, Choice of 3.7, 3.9, 4.11, or one thats apart a 4.11:D

Shame i just spent big money on a CLSD diff if this come to life:(

fujifan,, interesting but thats $1600 that woun't fit:(
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taza
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Post by taza » Tue May 10, 2011 11:33 pm

^ It doesnt but is simple enough to do. Any way that will get the mechanism to lock will work whether it be air, magnetic, electronic.

Taza

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Post by FujiFan » Wed May 11, 2011 12:01 am

Oh I know Guy, but we can only dream:p
I have disscussed this E-locker concept with a mate, His idea being to fit an R180 or R200 housing (with some careful planing) into the L wagon. This is more than likely going to need a 2" body lift, But most of you chaps will already have this :rolleyes:
With an R200 rear end, unbreakable. Prob drive/tail shafts and diff Xmember will cop all the abuse:twisted:

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Post by discopotato03 » Wed May 11, 2011 12:22 am

Just remember that long nose R200s are bloody heavy and use larger splines in the side gears than 160/180 .
Surely you can get second hand clutch LSDs from RXs and turbo Vortexs from OS .

A .

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Post by d_generate » Wed May 11, 2011 12:29 am

What has an R200 diff? big changes needed to fit a R180 so I'd stick to trying to develop the R160, cheap & common, other ones will take a few years to reach the easy to come by cheaply status.

One thing, as far as I know the open diff has female axles and the viscous etc have male - so you may need to know what you are starting with before going too far.
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Post by Dann » Wed May 11, 2011 12:39 am

I'm behind this, would be awsome when/if this goes though, I don't have much to contribute but you got my support :-D
Cheers,
Dann
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Post by FujiFan » Wed May 11, 2011 12:50 am

I somehow knew some peoples would try to cut me down, for shame:rolleyes:
Just remember that long nose R200s are bloody heavy and use larger splines in the side gears than 160/180 .
Surely you can get second hand clutch LSDs from RXs and turbo Vortexs from OS .
Yes they are, and as I said with some careful planing:) And yes you may get second ??? I think the point of Tazas' was to have a "lockable" rear diff as opp to the LSD options.
What has an R200 diff? big changes needed to fit a R180 so I'd stick to trying to develop the R160, cheap & common, other ones will take a few years to reach the easy to come by cheaply status.
I believe these will be found in Skylines, M series BMWs, HSV IRS and so on.
My idea was simply to contribute, however this may be considered an extreme upgrade (or downgrade if you like)..


J

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Post by discopotato03 » Wed May 11, 2011 8:57 am

Its not a case of cutting you down its a case of exploring the possible options and facing practical realities .
Nissan R series diffs were never intended to be fitted to serious off road vehicles and because of this they don't have provision or space for a mechanical lock . By a lock I mean some sort of dog clutch to lock a side gear to the carrier to defeat the differential action .
Since there is nothing like this in production and cheaply available second hand anything will have to be newly developed which is expensive .

So if truly serious you have two options .
1) Find an alternative IRS differential with the right ratio and locking mechanism and graft it in .
2) Go talk to people who specialise in aftermarket gearbox and differential bits and see if they can make one off locking carrier sections .

A .

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