Interested in what's available down under

suparu · Post by **suparu** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:11 am

Originally Posted by seagull View Post

you should of shipped a few duel range boxes. I have a pallet full of them

suparu wrote:we should talk. . .

haha, turns out we did chat about the pallet a WHILE back

legspecb08 · Post by **legspecb08** » Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:43 am

Ok so I have read through this and from what it sounds the only way to get a dual range tranny from AUS is to find a local member like taza. I currently own a 87 subaru gl with the D/R pt 4wd and a 87 subaru rx with the D/R ft 4wd with center lock dif. What I would like to do is source the DR ej box from AUS and then complete a rebuild with the two trannies I currently own. The rx also came with a lsd rear diff. is this possible to swap out and into a first gen forester? Please chime in if you have any help. TAZ and Suparu? Thanks

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:24 pm

legspecb08 wrote:Ok so I have read through this and from what it sounds the only way to get a dual range tranny from AUS is to find a local member like taza. I currently own a 87 subaru gl with the D/R pt 4wd and a 87 subaru rx with the D/R ft 4wd with center lock dif. What I would like to do is source the DR ej box from AUS and then complete a rebuild with the two trannies I currently own. The rx also came with a lsd rear diff. is this possible to swap out and into a first gen forester? Please chime in if you have any help. TAZ and Suparu? Thanks

Ok - with the dual range EJ AWD what are you trying to build. I ask as the pinion shafts are different and the bolt pattern on the EJ casing is different to the EA gearboxes for the EA and EJ engines.

The EA PT4wd gearbox won't be good for much other than the low range - the pinion shaft on this gearbox is a part of the lower gearset. The AWD gearboxes have the pinion shaft pass through the lower gearset.

The locking centre diff is only interchangeable between the EJ and EA boxes if you take the matching pinion shaft with it. The centre diffs and parts of the centre diff are not interchangeable (parts could be but I've not looked into it seriously). The centre diff must use the matching rear housing too.

I think it would only really be worth getting an EJ AWD dual range into the US if you're going to drop this in to an EJ'd vehicle, or a factory EJ vehicle. But that's my opinion.

As for the rear diff - it will bolt into the foz. You can also remove the diff's centre and swap it into your foz's rear diff so that you've got the matching rear ratio to the current gearbox in there. Do a search, I'm sure it was AndrewT that did a write up on it some time ago.

And welcome to the forum

Cheers

Bennie

legspecb08 · Post by **legspecb08** » Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:15 am

First of just want to say thank you to el freddo for getting back to my question so quickly. What my plans are is to pick up a first gen forester or second with a manual gear box NA ej motor. Then swap the tranny out with one of yours from AUS. I would like to have a lower low range then what comes on ur trannies. That is why I have a spare DL PT tranny from a gl wagon. I currently drive the RX and love the the option for center diff lock but is not essential to the swap. I would later like to swap the motor out with a ej20 or ej25 turbo motor but that will come at a different time. I would like to have the smoother shifting and direct built up of the ej tranny. Just so I can figure rough cost of getting one. What is the cost to pick a used one up from over there and ship it to the US. Lucky me I'm right along the coast and live next to Portland Oregon so I would be able to pick up from the shipping yards directly. Any help on pricing this option and anymore input on what people feel the best value for swapping out gears are would greatly be appreciated.

suparu · Post by **suparu** » Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:10 am

allwheelsdriven (http://www.allwheelsdriven.net/) in Bend Oregon apparently has a legacy 4.11 FD dual range EJ 5MT, AND there's a JDM distributor in Canada (check vtec_motors on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/sch/vtec_motors/m.h ... m=&_ipg=25) who also gets dual range AWD EJ5MTs, someone down in the States just got one bought and shipped for under $800 U$.
Those are a couple cheaper options that getting a friend from Australia.

legspecb08 wrote:Ok so I have read through this and from what it sounds the only way to get a dual range tranny from AUS is to find a local member like taza. I currently own a 87 subaru gl with the D/R pt 4wd and a 87 subaru rx with the D/R ft 4wd with center lock dif. What I would like to do is source the DR ej box from AUS and then complete a rebuild with the two trannies I currently own. The rx also came with a lsd rear diff. is this possible to swap out and into a first gen forester? Please chime in if you have any help. TAZ and Suparu? Thanks

And yes the RX LS unit swapps into an R160 Forester diff easily. A little grinding on the inner diff case, but no problem.

remove ring gear from Open diff

and put it on RX LS unit

this is diff case on left side, grind these little nubs down a bit

so the ring gear mounting bolts clear the case

You'll need the end caps and such too b/c your diff will go from a male'stubbed diff to a female diff, and you'll then need gen 1 legacy rear axles to marry the female diff to the forester hubs.

is this helpful??

suparu · Post by **suparu** » Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:22 am

freight for my gen 1 AUDM forester EJ 5MT was close to $1000 U$. Alternatively you could probably source a JDM outback or forester dual range for cheaper than an Aussie one. Since you're going to swap the low gears anyway, it won't matter what the low ratio is, just make sure you get a 4.11 axle ratio. While that can be changed too, it'll be less headache to get a transmission with the right final drive anyway.

BTW, the gen 1 JDM/AUDM/LADM/EUDM forester has 4.11 axle ratio and 1.447:1 low. That's pretty good and WAAAY better than the current and recent 1.19:1 low and about 3/4 of the way to the 1.59:1 low of your GL (if it's 97-89 I believe. I think EA81's were 1.44:1).

So that option is a bit more of a search but it's out-of-the-box bolt-on dual range awesome. If you are going to crack gearboxes open, then the low you get won't matter, just make sure you get the right axle ratio for your application (which sounds like a forester, therefore 4.11).

An RX with a newer EJ engine would be sweet!! Make that happen

AlpineRaven (from here) has this linked in his signature, and is the write-up you want for the low range swap
http://www.ausubaru.com.au/showthread.p ... 613&page=2

Ciao!

legspecb08 wrote:First of just want to say thank you to el freddo for getting back to my question so quickly. What my plans are is to pick up a first gen forester or second with a manual gear box NA ej motor. Then swap the tranny out with one of yours from AUS. I would like to have a lower low range then what comes on ur trannies. That is why I have a spare DL PT tranny from a gl wagon. I currently drive the RX and love the the option for center diff lock but is not essential to the swap. I would later like to swap the motor out with a ej20 or ej25 turbo motor but that will come at a different time. I would like to have the smoother shifting and direct built up of the ej tranny. Just so I can figure rough cost of getting one. What is the cost to pick a used one up from over there and ship it to the US. Lucky me I'm right along the coast and live next to Portland Oregon so I would be able to pick up from the shipping yards directly. Any help on pricing this option and anymore input on what people feel the best value for swapping out gears are would greatly be appreciated.

suparu · Post by **suparu** » Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:43 am

B T W, anyone and everyone following this thread.

The AUDM gen 1 Foz D/R 5MT is pretty sweet!!
I still need to test and try more to be more confident in its abilities and limits, (sadly right now my bearings and inner tie rods are "cracking the sad" but hopefully "red" will be back up and reliable after this weekend).

There's a bit of a shimmy on acceleration, but I'm not sure if its used gearbox, front end components, or the CLSD rear diff after driving it on pavement for a year. It's not binding and chirping the tires around corners like it did most of last year, so either it's losened up nicely, or its shot and needs shims. I prefer the former.

Anyhoo, haven't been around the forums lately, life and life events et. al. but hopefully things will calm down and I can get back into a healthy and happy groove.

cheers and keep on keepin' on!!

suparu · Post by **suparu** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:41 am

Just installed new inner and outer tie rods, front bearings, both front half shafts and aligned. Shutter [wa]s gone {but it's crept back a little in second, plus some other noises and such...possibly suspension though].!
Yay new bearings!!

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:59 pm

suparu wrote:Just installed new inner and outer tie rods, front bearings, both front half shafts and aligned. Shutter is gone!
Yay new bearings!!

My other thoughts would have been the drive shafts - I had a worn set that caused some shimmy issues!

Glad you got it sorted though!

Cheers

Bennie

suparu · Post by **suparu** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:24 pm

AlpineRaven wrote:Outback has 1.19:1 low.
You could use single range centre diff in dual range box, it'll fit.
You'll need to convert the low range gearing in outback box from l series. See my signature.
Cheers
AP

I'm reviving this with another question for you AlpineRaven

Do the dual range boxes have a different center diff than the single range center diff? Is there a different viscous coupling clamping treshold/force b/t single range and dual range cinter diffs?

I've noticed different behavior in my rear CLSD from a USDM single range 4.11 FD outback 5MT when compared to the AUDM dual range 4.11 forester 5MT I got last year.

Ultimately I'd like to swap the 1-5 from my stock legacy 5MT (better 1st and 5th than the forester box) and possibly do the GL low swap. . . . but that's still just a thought. This transmission may go into an OBS and I'm considering swapping it to 3.90 and swapping the 1-5 gearset. . .
again just wild thinking.

realistically though, I may be opening the dual range box to check out the front diff as there is a bunch of bad clunking coming from the transmission (I suspect the diff) and possibly swapping 1-5 gears.

thanks and Ciao

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:07 pm

suparu wrote:Do the dual range boxes have a different center diff than the single range center diff? Is there a different viscous coupling clamping treshold/force b/t single range and dual range cinter diffs?

Not that I'm aware of - I think all were the stock 5kg unless you have something from an STi that is rated higher.

suparu wrote:I've noticed different behavior in my rear CLSD from a USDM single range 4.11 FD outback 5MT when compared to the AUDM dual range 4.11 forester 5MT I got last year.

Odd. Have you checked the CLSD to make sure it's all good? The CLSD's need regular maintenance...

Ultimately I'd like to swap the 1-5 from my stock legacy 5MT (better 1st and 5th than the forester box) and possibly do the GL low swap. . . . but that's still just a thought. This transmission may go into an OBS and I'm considering swapping it to 3.90 and swapping the 1-5 gearset. . .
again just wild thinking.

suparu wrote:realistically though, I may be opening the dual range box to check out the front diff as there is a bunch of bad clunking coming from the transmission (I suspect the diff) and possibly swapping 1-5 gears.

Check your gearbox and engine mounts first. Also check the pitch rod or whatever it's called that goes from the fire wall to the gearbox. It's unusual for a front diff to be giving you trouble.

As for the swapping of 1-5 gears you'll run into trouble doing this as the top layshaft is designed for the dual range setup and two gears are cast to this (I think it's 1st and 2nd, but can't remember exactly) - swapping with the single range gearsets isn't possible unless 1st and 2nd are the same.

Changing the diff ratio to 3.9 should be pretty straight forward though.

Cheers

Bennie

suparu · Post by **suparu** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:40 am

Ahh, something easy like THAT would be the best solution!!!

Here are a couple clips where I think you can hear the thunking... Maybe its suspension related...? I only thought front diff 'cause it seems like its just right under the radio/dash. . . BUT front diff would mean problems ALL the time, not just sometimes.
I think the noise/clunking shows up on turns and suspension articulation, also deceleration under load, particularly in lo range (like descending a hill in gear).

http://youtu.be/oUXu3kDK5Sg

http://youtu.be/hRu5vtP3aMs

Thanks for your thoughts/input Bennie.

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:20 am

suparu wrote:I think the noise/clunking shows up on turns and suspension articulation, also deceleration under load, particularly in lo range (like descending a hill in gear).

Probably ball joint or drive shaft related. I've not viewed the videos as I'm a short amount of time this morning for net time. But from this description above that's what I'm going to go with - it happened to my L series for ages until I swapped out the drive shafts.

If it's very faint and you hear it on a relatively smooth road that requires the suspension to move only a tiny amount each time it'll be a worn strut - where it 's done most of its work during the life of the unit, but this noise doesn't only occur on full lock/turning etc, you'll hear it in a straight line and it's not a "whoa, what was that knock?!" sort of situation...

No worries mate, that's what we're here for. Oh, and I haven't been to the post office yet, I'll get onto it this week

Cheers

Bennie

suparu · Post by **suparu** » Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:43 am

Oy vey! (slaps forhead with open palm)

In the vein of "check the fuse before you replace the starter!" it turns out, with minimal investigating, its a worn front sway bar link. I disconnected the sway bar (finall a REAL reason to do it

and with an around the block drive, I think the noise is gone... I'm going to go with this diagnosis until further notice

at any rate, stay tuned folks I'm doing some more editing of another 1.26 mile run on hell's revenge in Moab.

Here's the entrance to the trail
Hell's Revenge

Okay, here's another of the first obstacles in the first 1/4 mile

http://youtu.be/fthiTYcoG1c

Sadly I'm not sure any of the other rigs we past are on the videos but it was cool seeing a couple of the hummer tours and a couple rented jeeps too (The upgraded rentals, Rubicons with 2" lift

I wonder how they all felt about their investment seeing a subaru sedan on the trail

Here's how I went on the trail with this latest dual range AWD test drive (until I got too sketched with all the clunking and noises)
Hell's first 1.26 mi

And no worries on the shipment. Whenever its convenient man, I know you've probably got a lot on your plate and time is probably at a premium

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:23 pm

suparu wrote:I wonder how they all felt about their investment seeing a subaru sedan on the trail

I've never thought about this in that way! Not only do our subi's do very well offroad if driven right when well setup, but they also handle and perform VERY well on road - hello fuel economy! <- that's something you can't say in a big rig!

Cheers

Bennie

suparu · Post by **suparu** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:37 am

El_Freddo wrote:I've never thought about this in that way! Not only do our subi's do very well offroad if driven right when well setup, but they also handle and perform VERY well on road - hello fuel economy! <- that's something you can't say in a big rig!

Cheers

Bennie

Hell yeah!!

My buddy has a 4" lifted FJ cruiser and while awesome and SUPER capable, he gets like 14 MPG. I pulled up in my Legacy for a trail run with him and other big rigs, and pulled it off [essentially ;]!!

Moab Rigs + Subaru
Lockhart Basin
Hell's Revenge quick trip

AND I still get 25 MPG in this, my daily driver and kid hauler!!

suparu · Post by **suparu** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:38 am

Hey Bennie,

If you can give me some measurements and a weight, we can look up the shipping cost (someone else forwarded me this link)

http://auspost.com.au/apps/postage-calculator.html
e.g. sea mail $44 or for up to 20 kg air mail $62 for up to 20 kg

Ciao

suparu · Post by **suparu** » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:29 am

Hey Bennie,

Can you expand on the swapping gear sets from a single range into a dual range? My legacy 5MT has a 3.545 first which I'd prefer over the forester's 3.454 first. I'm not the happiest with the forester's .871 fifth, but I think my Legacy's .780 might be too weak for the AT tires on moderate and steep highway hills.

I'm working with a guy in Colorado who is swapping an EJ DR into his 02 OBS and he's done great research about JDM DR 5MTs. He's found that a gen 3 legacy DR has 4.11 final drive and 3.545 first with a .825 fifth. So there's a good compromise compared to the forester's 1st and 5th. He's planning on the GL low swap anyway, so those first and fifth gears sound better than the forester's especially when paired to a 1.59:1 low AND his USDM EJ25 turning it!

OOOH, and thanks for the bits!! they're awesome!

El_Freddo wrote:
El_Freddo wrote: As for the swapping of 1-5 gears you'll run into trouble doing this as the top layshaft is designed for the dual range setup and two gears are cast to this (I think it's 1st and 2nd, but can't remember exactly) - swapping with the single range gearsets isn't possible unless 1st and 2nd are the same.

Changing the diff ratio to 3.9 should be pretty straight forward though.
As for the swapping of 1-5 gears you'll run into trouble doing this as the top layshaft is designed for the dual range setup and two gears are cast to this (I think it's 1st and 2nd, but can't remember exactly) - swapping with the single range gearsets isn't possible unless 1st and 2nd are the same.

Bennie

suparu · Post by **suparu** » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:36 am

USDM 1995 Fegacy EJ22 running an AUDM 1998 Forester DR FT AWD 5MT

A little more AUDM Awesomeness to complete the cabin:

NachaLuva · Post by **NachaLuva** » Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:10 pm

I love your installation...very well done. It looks factory!

How difficult was it to do?