Interested in what's available down under

[suparu]

I love your installation...very well done. It looks factory!

How difficult was it to do?

It was a snap!! Once under the console:

6-7 screws and the metal shift gasget trim was off:


and the AUDM one with the cable hangers went right into place


Then I pulled the one bolt (holding a wire clamp) and a plastic plug (holding a piece of carpet).



then the low range shifter lever bolted right into place


I didn't have a matching bolt for the rear mounting hole (under the plastic plug was a threaded hole), but one of my skid plate screws fit perfectly

[suparu]

The cable lined up perfectly with the lever, so i attached it and replaced the cover with an AUSM one fitted for the low range arm. At first the arm sat a bit high in the available slot


I then fitted the plastic cable clip on top of the lever bracket which levelled it out to better align the arm in its hole (it could still go a touch lower, but that's just looks at this point).



And the E-brake surround was more deformed than mine so I swapped those around.



Aah Subaru, so global!!

[El_Freddo]

Sorry for the late reply!

You'll find that the first gearset will be difficult to swap as one (I think the top shaft) is pressed on. To swap it you need to find another dual range top shaft with the required 1st gear ratio on it.

The 5th gear is interchangeable but shouldn't be an issue on steep hills - you shouldn't be in it! I wouldn't use 5th in low range - and you can safely change into low range at any time, so long as you go up a gear (1st to 5th) when you go into low range. Going from low range to high range is just like a normal gear change

I hope that makes sense - there's no need to slow down to swap into low range unless you're doing about 50 miles an hour...

Cheers

Bennie

[suparu]

Roger that! Changing the internals seems more difficult than finding and using what's available (unless one has the time, parts, vision and knowledge to modify the guts out of stuff

Researching with a another enthusiast here in the states (in CO), it seems we've dissected some info on JDM availability. He is looking into the Euro specs (delving through Bulgarian and Russian sites) and the question still remains, is AUDM the same as JDM or are there differences in what was and IS available Down Under.

From what's readily available for digging up in the US, here' is a list of dual range JDM 5MTs. (Caveat, this is for NON-turbo, dual range EJ 5MTs)
*NOTE* The X in the 6th character indicates DUAL RANGE

TY752X1DCA JDM Legacy 2.5L MY98
TY752XW3AA JDM Impreza 1.8L (A/S) MY93-94
TY754XKAAA JDM Legacy 2.5L MY99-00
TY754XKBAA JDM Legacy 2.5L MY01-03
TY753XS1AA JDM Forester MY98 [question mark in places on the original chart)
TY755XS1AA JDM Forester MY99-00
TY755XS2AA JDM Forester MY01
TY755XS3AA JDM Forester MY02
TY755XS4AA JDM Forester MY03
TY755XS5AA JDM Forester MY04
TY753XR1AA JDM Forester MY98 (THIS is my AUDM 98 Forester transmission)

for comparison, here are 3 USDM codes
TY752VAAAA USDM Legacy Outback MY95
TY752VAABA USDM Legacy MY95
TY754VCACB US Legacy Outback MY99

(turns out my factory 95 legacy sedan 5MT had the code specd for the USDM 95 Outback, although it is NOT an outback; the 99 OB is given as I swapped to that transmission 3 years ago)


It follows that first and fifth gear in the legacy/libertys (and impreza) differ from the foresters.

From this list (extracted from a much more comprehensive list):

• the legacies are all 4.11 FD with a 3.545 first gear and a .825 fifth gear.
• the 93-94 impreza has the same 1-5 as the legacy but a 3.90 FD, and since it's behind an EJ18, consensus indicates it has the 1.59:1 low range.
• All legacies (OB expected) from this list are 4.11 FD (because they're behind 2.5 engines).
• All foresters from this list have 3.454 first gear and .870 fifth gear and 4.11 FD.
• This list indicates the 98 forester would have 3.545 first, which is inaccurate. The 98 forester 5MT I have from Down Under has the 3.454 first and .870 fifth with 4.11s; and a 1.447:1 low (changed in '99 for unknown reason)

This US list also does not indicate low range reduction, but it is my understanding that

• everything behind an EJ25 would have 1.19:1 low,
• anything behind an EJ20 would have the 1.447:1 low
• and (like the impreza listed) anything behind an EJ18 would have the 1.59:1 low.

Final drives are a bit more tricky as people on this forum in this thread have indicated liberties and outbacks vary between 3.70 and 3.90. I do not know what came with EJ20s down under, but I would expect anything behind an EJ25 would be 4.11 and similarly anything behind an EJ20 (like all the foresters) would also be 4.11 and anything behind a turbo would be 3.90. Maybe that steps down to anything behind EJ20 is 3.90 (except Foresters) and anything behind a turbo is 3.70??

If someone can draft or link me to an AUDM Subaru transmission chart like this one, I would be forever appreciative!!
http://www.rallispec.com/downloads/Tran ... Public.pdf


Some mysteries remain, but I think we're getting closer to decoding what is/was available Down Under. Again many thanks for all the contributors in this discussion!

Sorry for the late reply!

You'll find that the first gearset will be difficult to swap as one (I think the top shaft) is pressed on. To swap it you need to find another dual range top shaft with the required 1st gear ratio on it.

The 5th gear is interchangeable but shouldn't be an issue on steep hills - you shouldn't be in it! I wouldn't use 5th in low range - and you can safely change into low range at any time, so long as you go up a gear (1st to 5th) when you go into low range. Going from low range to high range is just like a normal gear change

I hope that makes sense - there's no need to slow down to swap into low range unless you're doing about 50 miles an hour...

Cheers

Bennie

[El_Freddo]

I wouldn't worry about getting a lower first gear ratio - just drop the L series low range in!!!

While you've got the box split shove a front LSD in as well and get those extra oil feeders to the low range sorted too

You can get "better" 5th gear ratios from alldrivesuparoo.com (I think that's them). If need be ship them to me and I'll post them over if it's going to keep the cost down for you

Cheers

Bennie

[suparu]

Thanks Bennie,

Given JDM legacies seem somewhat available, if/when I do another DR EJ5MT swap, I'd rather do a lower 1st also knowing I'd get a better 5th, one split between the Forester's .871 and the better overdrive .780 in USDM 3.90 cars. Low range swap aside, going as much plug-n-play as possible would be best. The less major fiddling the better for reliability and minimizing future needs to go heart-deep into a car to keep it driving. I'm in the camp of driving a car is better than wrenching on it (especially if its mine).
The reason I bring up the stock lower 1st is that I CAN tell the difference from the USDM 99 OB 1st and the AUDM 98 FOR 1st gear. i know numerically it's not much, 3.545 vs. 3.454, but factoring 1st and FD and low, here's some crawl ratio numbers...

hi range:
my AUDM 98 FOR. Hi 1st*FD*no lo=14.19594
03 USDM OBS Hi 1st*FD*no lo=13.8255
00-04 JDM legacy Hi 1st*FD*no lo=14.56995

lo range:
my AUDM 98 FOR. Lo 1st*FD*1.447 lo=20.54152518
03 USDM OBS (DR)Lo 1st*FD*1.59 lo=21.982545 (if modified with DR EJ 5MT)
00-04 JDM legacy Lo 1st*FD*1.19 lo=14.56995
00-04 JDM legacy Lo 1st*FD*1.59 lo=23.1662205

So If I cold put a dual range in my 3.90 OBS, keeping the 3.90FD but changed to a GL low, I'd have a slightly higher 1st gear than my 4.11 AUDM forester'ed legacy (which is fine with the EJ25) but i'd have a lower crawl ratio than my 4.11 AUDM forester 5MT.

The final lo range comparison (as some of you guys have done) is a GL low into a DR EJ 4.11FD gear box (here, JDM legacy) giving a 23.166:1 crawl (given the 4.11s, that's better than the GL DR 4x4s had AND that was behind an EA81) but this would be BEHIND AN EJ25!
This is the CO guy's plan for his 02 OBS.


And yeah, splitting it to put the GL low would be a must, and a front LSD would be sweet, but availability and co$t are serious factors there.

The oil feeder idea seems a good one, but if that mechanism fails inside the box, that's a $#!+ storm of potential problems!!

If I do another one, it'll be b/c I sold my 95 legacy and got my wife's 03 OBS. I'd likely leave it a 3.90 for efficiency, but with a GL low (probably no need to modify the ring gear, it would be like the 93-94 Impreza then) it would rock on boat ramps (white water rafting rig... I do live in Moab after all then maybe a 1" spacer and WRX or STi springs and a simple RSB upgrade, it would be a rally rocket AND a good road/highway car, AAnd plenty capable for regular and light duty needs.
I would surely be sad to not have the bad-assness of my Legacy now and again, BUT it is 18 years old and has 184K on it... None of that is going to get better with time

At any rate, given what we (in the States) can get, it seems a DR legacy transmission (unless i/we can decode Outback guts and availability in dual range) would likely be the next offering, then swap the low. Again, if OBs are typically 3.90, then that could be good (again, depending on 1st and 5th) option.

I wouldn't worry about getting a lower first gear ratio - just drop the L series low range in!!!

While you've got the box split shove a front LSD in as well and get those extra oil feeders to the low range sorted too

You can get "better" 5th gear ratios from alldrivesuparoo.com (I think that's them). If need be ship them to me and I'll post them over if it's going to keep the cost down for you

Cheers

Bennie

[NachaLuva]

The reason I bring up the stock lower 1st is that I CAN tell the difference from the USDM 99 OB 1st and the AUDM 98 FOR 1st gear. i know numerically it's not much, 3.545 vs. 3.454, but factoring 1st and FD and low, So If I cold put a dual range in my 3.90 OBS, keeping the 3.90FD but changed to a GL low, I'd have a slightly higher 1st gear than my 4.11 AUDM forester'ed legacy (which is fine with the EJ25) but i'd have a lower crawl ratio than my 4.11 AUDM forester 5MT.

I think the biggest thing you would notice is the difference between 3.9 & 4.1 diffs

And yeah, splitting it to put the GL low would be a must, and a front LSD would be sweet, but availability and co$t are serious factors there.

Try sourcing a WRX STi front diff, shouldnt be too much & may fit in without any mods but you'd have to research that...

The oil feeder idea seems a good one, but if that mechanism fails inside the box, that's a $#!+ storm of potential problems!!

The beauty of this system is that with it off it's no different to the standard box, with it on it supplies oil directly to the LR.

= no risk mod

I'd likely leave it a 3.90 for efficiency, but with a GL low

I'd really go for 4.111 diffs if you can, Venom found it a massive difference even with his H6!

[suparu]

Good points here NachaLuva.

I think the biggest thing you would notice is the difference between 3.9 & 4.1 diffs

I totally agree! I had 27" ATs on my 2.2 legacy with factory 3.90s for 7 years. WAAAY under-geared. When I swapped to a 99 OB with 4.11s it was INSTANTLY like stock pep STILL on the 27" ATs! BUT our 03 OBS with 3.90s behind the EJ25 is still peppier off the line than my 4.11 legacy. I know that 4.11s in the OBS would be REALLY SWEET and the torque would be awesome (like the USDM 98 RS, but a wagon instead of a 2-dr coupe with 4.11s and a 2.5 ), but if we get a newer car, my lifted legacy moves on and I'd get the OBS. In that case, I like the OBS' 30+ MPG highway and 28 city and I know that would drop with 4.11s.

AND this would no longer be an real off-road car as is my legacy, it would just be a MORE capable 'regular' car; I'm thiking 1" spacers and spring swap, Geolander ATS, RSB and a GL-swapped dual range 5MT.

Try sourcing a WRX STi front diff, shouldnt be too much & may fit in without any mods but you'd have to research that...

Yeah, so I hear. It's a mechanical front LSD, but I don't have ready access to yards and parts, and play money is REALLY limited at this point in life (2 kids under 4, one with continuing health expenses), part time work NOT in my field of experience/education and living in an expensive and SMALL tourist town. . . . I digress

The beauty of this system is that with it off it's no different to the standard box, with it on it supplies oil directly to the LR.

= no risk mod

I'd have to look more into it, b/c it seemed (from a cursory read from Bennie) that it would be a little contrived for the routing and pick-up, BUT if its just upgrading from factory parts into an optional system (as with so many subaru mods) that just wasn't offered in the gearbox, but easily fitted into, then that's another story

I'd really go for 4.111 diffs if you can, Venom found it a massive difference even with his H6!

OOH MAN! I can only imagine an H6 on 4.11s, only bettered by 4.44s!!!!
Is Venom's H-6 an EZ30? and does it have a GL-swapped EJ dual range?

In my dream land of dream lands, I'd have an EG33 swap with a FT AWD, locking center diff on GL low with front and rear mechanical LSDs, on FXT suspension and kings!!

But realistically, I'd be happy with our OBS on 1" spacers, Geolander ATSs, STi springs, EJ dual range 5MT with GL lows and a VLSD rear.


Ciao

[El_Freddo]

I think the biggest thing you would notice is the difference between 3.9 & 4.1 diffs

My thoughts too. I just took Ruby Scoo out for a drive tonight. 1.59:1 low range and 4.111:1 diff ratio was AWESOME - she pulled up and over climbs I was expecting her to either stall or loose traction on. I was very impressed!

I had 27" ATs on my 2.2 legacy with factory 3.90s for 7 years. WAAAY under-geared. When I swapped to a 99 OB with 4.11s it was INSTANTLY like stock pep STILL on the 27" ATs! BUT our 03 OBS with 3.90s behind the EJ25 is still peppier off the line than my 4.11 legacy.

I think the peppier bit comes from the EJ25 rather than the 3.9:1 diff ratio...

I'd have to look more into it, b/c it seemed (from a cursory read from Bennie) that it would be a little contrived for the routing and pick-up, BUT if its just upgrading from factory parts into an optional system (as with so many subaru mods) that just wasn't offered in the gearbox, but easily fitted into, then that's another story

The oil feed is a modification, you could leave out the tube bits if you wanted, any oil up there is better than no oil! This system is not available on stock gearboxes even as an option.

OOH MAN! I can only imagine an H6 on 4.11s, only bettered by 4.44s!!!!
Is Venom's H-6 an EZ30? and does it have a GL-swapped EJ dual range?

He's had 4.44:1 diffs - in some sti box when it was single range. You'd be doing 60km/h and already going for 5th! It was insanely low but didn't cut the mustard offroad.

It's had an AWD L series box with the locking centre diff. Centre diff died unfortunately due to a miss communication. He was running stock 3.7 diff ratio with this box. I tried to get him to go 4.111:1.

Now it's got an EJ dual range box, 1.59:1 low range, 4.111:1 final ratio, lower 5th gear, low range oil feed and DCCD with pro controller. He's very satisfied with this setup and I believe that's the end of gearbox builds now for Venom. Everything is built with factory parts so sourcing new bits won't be hard. Oh, and he's got clutch front and rear LSDs, wound up nice and tight!

Cheers

Bennie

[beau83]

Can someone please help me out and tell me what the differences (if any) there is in these gearboxes, they are both 5 speed manuals out of a Subaru Liberty wagon 1999 model GEN3 with selective AWD, 5speed manual EJ20. Here are the ID numbers on both boxes TY754XRAAA and TY754XKAAA. As you will notice there is only 1 difference and that is at the 7th letter. I need to know if the TY754XKAAA will replace the TY754XRAAA without any modifications being needed? If there are any modifications needed for this swap can you please list them for me as well. Thankyou kindly for your help