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Pulled an MY 4 speed 4WD DR apart a few years ago and what a bastard of a job and design that was and they were !! Never went back together.Met a guy BRUMBY49 ebay ID that rebuilt them for pleasure !!!

The other day I pulled apart a box in the title and was it a dream to dismantle. So long as you know when to expect balls and springs to fall out they'd be a bloody dream to rebuild. All I wanted was the stubs in case I ever go EJ AWD box in MY and the input shaft for clutch alignment tool. Now know why you can't replace front oil seal in these boxes like many other boxes you can.

What was it people did with these L boxes ? Lib internals only or was it also adapt to AWD ?

Why would you need the stubs for EJ gearbox in MY car? Just use the correct inner CV cups and you can leave the EJ gearbox as-is. Heaps easier surely?

If you liked dismantling the L box, just wait 'till you do a lib!

Imho the most usefull part of that box is the low range gearset.

Ahh, putting them back together is only hard if you don't know how the 4wd selector detent balls and springs go in. If you watch carefully as you pull it apart you have no trouble. Well, took me an hour to get the selectors back together and working! but the rest is easy.

You can use the Liberty rear casing and internals to make an AWD to bolt to an EA. Or you can do what I done with the FT4wd, or you can make a PT4wd Liberty box. Its all lego... Just can't change ratios (easily)

AndrewT, the idea being that if I ever do the L stubs in an EJ box in an MY will allow easy fitment of standard CV shafts without trying to play with the combo of all the differing bits and pieces to marry MY to EJ


MY STI I will have to wait - got no time space or money for lib bits

If I pull another apart I'll get someone to video it for replay and or read instructions !

I realise that minor advantage, but surely that is massively outweighed by the disadvantage of having to strip down and reassemble two gearboxes! I would think swapping two inner CV cups to be considerably easier....but each to their own I guess
Was it the 25 spline stubs you got out of the gearbox?

This'l make you spit chips .

All three variations of the early Liberty front drive shafts are the same functional length so all you really gain by using 25 spline diff stubs is the ability to run DOJs with the 25 spline inner side hole .

From memory most early AWD Libs run 23 spline (gearbox side) DOJs the exception being the (and I'll have to check this) RS turbo cars .

What you have to remember is that those early AWD Lib (sedans) are ~ 1340Kg where an RX-T L sedan is ~ 1080 , meaning the car is heavier and its EJ22or EJ20T makes more torque .
The brutal truth is that the snotbox EJ22 powered FrWD versions have the beefiest combination of DOJ/axle/CV , the reason being that they're feed ALL of their torque through only two driveshafts so they need to be hardier than even the RS turbo front shafts .
AWD takes a LOT of load off the front driveshafts .

Actually the Vortex XT6 AWD has the beefiest combination made with huge diameter front axle shafts and beefier L RX Turbo 25 spline DOJs .

Gareth (Bratgeebra here) tells me he's NEVER seen a broken front driveshaft on a Subaru to date , not broken through drive loads anyway .

The message is that adding AWD to a normally FrWD car and with a larger engine should not be a problem because the vehicle is lighter overall and the rear driveshafts are now sharing half the load .

Most manufacturers go to smaller lighter front shafts when they apply AWD to a FrWD platform .

Your call , cheers A .

^ That didn't make much sense in the context of the thread... And I think you got the spline counts the wrong way around. From what I've read here all Liberty gearboxes were 25 spline counts. L series carbie jobs are 23 spline and the MPFI are 25 splines.

What steptoe has done here is collected a set of 23 spline diff stubs from an L series carbie gearbox to, one day, fit them to an EJ AWD gearbox front diff. This will allow steptoe to fit off the shelf MY shafts without having to play around with finding/fitting the MPFI 25 spline cups when his conversion is done...

I my mind its worth the effort for the ease of future fitment of new MY shafts.

Cheers

Bennie

It isn't as easy finding the right MY shafts to match Liberty DOJ's too then matching Liberty DOJ's to L series shafts... So this does make sense.

Phizinza wrote:It isn't as easy finding the right MY shafts to match Liberty DOJ's too then matching Liberty DOJ's to L series shafts... So this does make sense.

Righto, that sounds a little more useful - thought it odd of disco to be off the 8 ball...

So, it would be easier for steptoe to use L series 23 spline stub axles in an AWD EJ to mate his standard MY driveshafts to the EJ box, other easy option would be to use L series MPFI inner cups to mate to the EJ stubs... I'm looking at the stub change with my L when I get around to an EJ box (and motor, and loom... its coming, I promise!).

Cheers

Bennie

I was a little off the pace but mainly because I was thinking he meant EJ type gearbox an Lib/Impreza style struts and hubs .

Back to the gearboxes . Both L and early Liberty boxes could have 23 or 25 spline diff stub shafts depending on the model .

Remembering that out here (Aus) turbo L's were essentially a FrWD car most of the time so they put turbo torque most often through only the front diff/driveshafts/wheels .
It's the reason why RX's have the larger 25 spl diff stubs , largest DOJ's with 25spline holes on the stub and the axle shaft side , largest diameter conventional axles (meaning non EJ type CV's) .
Bratgeebra tells me that later non turbo MPFI 4WD wagons also had this gear as well .

Most early AWD Libs have 23 spline diff stubs and if you get a gearbox with them then MY complete axles shoud go straigh on - provided their DOJ's have 23 spline holes on their inner sides .

What I mentioned in my above post is fact , the early FrWD Libs have the beefiest DOJ/axle/CV joints in that model range because the EJ22 makes more torque than an EA82 carb or MPFI and Libs are significaltly heavier than L's .

When I get home I'll look up the Legacy manual I printed to refresh on the difference between the NA FrWD model and the RS Turbo model , I'm sure I posted all these details on AuZoob not long ago .

Cheers A .

El_Freddo wrote: So, it would be easier for steptoe to use L series 23 spline stub axles in an AWD EJ

I wouldn't say easier. Different maybe. The problem is finding driveshafts that use the same size inner spline (on the shaft this is) as the Liberty's shafts do or use the same size ball race as the Libs. I've played around with 3 MY shafts. All had different size ball races, one of the two had different splines, but they were all the same length and all 23spline gearbox mating splines.

Righto from the factory copy Legacy WSM , it seems that all early Libs had 25spline front diff stubs except autos - and manual 1800s (not sold here) which were 23 spline stubs .

So yes you have two options , run 23 spline stubs or do something with the driveshafts which is what I'd do .

Purely from what Bratgeebra tells me some MYs have axles with 22 splines that fit in the CV joint and outer side of the DOJ .

My factory 87 L WSM shows lots of MY type stuff like EA81 engines etc .
It also has details of front drive shafts that I doubt would fit any L Series .
Anyway the two odd ones are called 82AC and 87AC , both are listed as being 23 spline at the diff stub side of their DOJs .
I also have a feeling that Gee mentioned late model Brumbys have larger front axle shafts (possibly the 87AC type) and they are 23 splined at the axle shaft rather than 22 . If this is the case then a pair of those with Liberty 87AC-25 shaft assembly type DOJs should fit and work .

Drive shafts are easy once you find a combination that fits and works .
The only catch is that you have to know what you have and be able to quote this to the people doing shafts/joints for you .
If you can afford it having a set of shafts ready to go before you need them is handy .
A cheaper option could be having a spare set of 23 spline MY axles and 2nd hand Lib DOJs ready to build up at short notice .

Your call but I don't go inside gearboxes unless really necessary .

Cheers A .

another reason for my actions is that I have hung on to a pair of MY auto FWD shafts as I had read in tim81coupe post that bits of these are needed to fit EJ box in MY. I now feel confident that having these stubs and can now dispose of these shafts making room for more important stuff. Two little stubs take up less room than two dirty, greasy old CV's of unknown condition and store some bits of a L box in bits scattered around, and got an alignment tool for clutch

disco, he pulled 23 spline stubs from an L series box to eventually install into a Liberty box... Just thought maybe you needed this reinstated as you might not of realised

Anyhow, If you want to do something with the Liberty box like changing the low range you may as well just stick those stubs in while your there instead of finding two MY shafts that have Liberty compatible DOJ's.

As for the clutch, I've always done them by eye and never have had a problem. But each to their own

Yes I had that one pegged - the 23 spline stubs .

For some reason I can't edit my last post which is not 100% right .

Gee tells me that MYs have 22 or 23 (both ends) splined axles , 22s are 82AC type and have one ring . 23s are 87AC and have either two or no rings on the axles .

On the 22 there is an AWD Lib DOJ that mates the axle to the 25 spline stub .
On the 23 there is a Lib DOJ outer housing that joins the std DOJ innards to the 25 spline stub .

Note to fit a CrossBred kit you have to use the 22 spline 82AC axles because while there are Lib CVs available with 22 spline axle side holes there is no 23 spline version apparently .

Your calls but Subaru must have had their reasons for using 25 spline diff stubs in Lib boxes , going with the strength sounds good to me .

Cheers A .

discopotato03 wrote: Your calls but Subaru must have had their reasons for using 25 spline diff stubs in Lib boxes , going with the strength sounds good to me .

I'd say is is weight related added strength not power related. Theres a guy in the states that used a turbo EJ (he said dyno'ed at 300hp) in a L touring wagon with standard PT4wd 5sp. He only ever snapped driveshafts. Oh, and it was running 35" tyres I believe...

When your likely to break a stub, 4wding up climbs. Your putting more stress on the rear end of your car because that takes the weight while going up the climb. So the fronts aren't much to worry about really. They are plenty strong.

Hey, and its a rare sight to see a broken stub on an open or limited slip differential.