quick gearing question

Numbchux · Post by **Numbchux** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:42 am

So, I'm looking into an EJ22 Dual-range gearbox. I know it's a 3.9:1 axle ratio. cable clutch. from a first-gen Liberty. Anyone know what the 1-5 gears would be? I believe I had read somewhere that they might be the same as the FT4WD L-series trans I've got now (.871 5th), which would be horrendous for the freeway with the lower axle ratio. I'm really hoping it has the .783 5th like other AWD 5MTs here in the states.

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:33 am

The early generation Legacys use the same close/short ratios as the carby L series DR 4WD , only the low range in the L is different - shorter .

If you want the taller 5th ratio I think the gen 2 ones have it .

I'm using the close short gearset in a L DR AWD 3.7 box and yes you can easily feel the difference between it and the wider/taller L Turbo ratios on the open road .

Unless your going to run big diameter wheels you need that taller 5th with 3.9final drives .

Cheers A .

Numbchux · Post by **Numbchux** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:22 pm

I think we have close/short and wide/tall backwards.....as I'm officially more confused than before.

PT4WD 5MTs from N/A Ls here in the US have a .780 5th gear and 3.9 axle
FT4WD 5MTS with turbo Ls have .871 and 3.7 (this is what I'm running now with my EJ22). this turns horrendously high rpms at freeway speeds.

AWD 5MT first-gen legacies here have a .783 and either 3.9 or 4.111.

the post I saw made it sound like the EJ D/Rs might have the .871 5th and the 3.9 axle. which would suck out loud. I know the trans I'm looking at is a 3.9, and from a first gen liberty.

just wondering which it might have.

and yes, I know it's got the smaller low-range. I could swap it for the 1.6, but I really don't need that, this isn't a lifted rig. will be a torquey motor and used for AutoX.

AlpineRaven · Post by **AlpineRaven** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:18 pm

Gen2 3.7 D/R box is .871 5th Gear at 2650 rpm @100kmh

I think these D/R from L series have a better 5th gear?
Cheers
AP

Outback bloke · Post by **Outback bloke** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:26 pm

Find the code sticker on your box (normally just near the starter) and then have a look in the Tech manual on this site. It will tell you exactly what they are.

Phizinza · Post by **Phizinza** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:22 pm

Chux, I'm pretty sure you can use any 5sp gear you want in the EJ D/R box and EA FT4WD boxes. Its the other gears that are harder/impossible to change depending on which gear in the D/R EJ boxes..

Numbchux · Post by **Numbchux** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:09 pm

hmmm....

I do not have it. I do not want to open it up and change anything. just want to know what it has, .783 or .871.

Phizinza · Post by **Phizinza** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:49 am

Ok, the 3.9 EJ D/R box I used 5th gear was the same as the FT4WD 3.9 D/R box. I think, memory is fading. But I believe I used the EJ input side of 5th and the EA FT output side because I used the EA FT pinion, diff and centre diff. Although I might of put the FT 5th on the EJ shaft.

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:38 am

Early EJ and EA AWD transmissions can use the same gearsets but they are made in pairs of gears ie 1-2 and 3-4 , 5th gear pair is seperate but can change any combination of 1-2 or 3-4 or 5th provided they are from an AWD box .

When you throw in dual range it complicates matters because you now have a two piece mainshaft and 1st and 2nd mainshaft gears are machined into the mainshaft itself .

If you want the wide ratios and dual range (and 3.7 diff) you need an EA DR AWD gearset because as far as I know no early EJ style box had this combination of parts standard . The DR AWD L box is a unique critter .
Actually thinking about it you may be able to cheat by starting with an RX turbo L box and the EJ RS countershaft/viscous diff/rear casings but the two set of gears could whine a bit .

I think the best your going to get in an EJ box is the slightly later Gen 2 (or was it 2nd series Gen 1) that had the 3.9 diff and the close ratio gearset but with the taller 0.78 5th gear pair .

I did read about a later Impreza Sports wagon DR box ? What do they have ?

A .

Numbchux · Post by **Numbchux** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:30 pm

yarg. maybe your EA82 gears are different than ours. that might be the source of the confusion....

FT4WD D/R EA82 boxes were only available with a 3.7 (in the US anyway). This is what I have. it has the .871 5th, and turns horrendously high rpms on the freeway.

Zap brought a 3.9 D/R EJ trans to the US from AUS from a 1st gen liberty. AFAIK, it's the only one that's been brought to this continent, so I can't be picky. if I want an EJ DR....this will be it.

I'm aware of all the combinations possible. I've got a SR EJ22 5MT apart on the bench in the basement. but don't want to pull it apart, I want the 1.196:1 low ratio, and 3.9:1 axle, and viscous center. if it's got a .871 5th, I'll pull it apart and swap it. I can do that pretty easily. but if it's got the .783, I won't need to.

I'd find it extremely hard to believe that a tranny designed for an EJ22 would have the .871 5th, as the only EA82s to come with that were the turbos, which don't have much low end torque. so if I had to put money on it, I'd bet on the .783. but, looking through the chart in the tech manuals here, .8 or more seems to be much more common than .7 (although there are no D/R trannies listed....)

Phizinza · Post by **Phizinza** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:13 pm

Wiki says the 5sp (this is non-D/R) EJ MT had 0.78 5th and 3.9 diff.
I just downloaded a manual for a 95 Liberty/Legacy (again non-D/R) that says the same.
Going on that, I really can't see why they would put a different 5th in the D/R box when it has the same engine, diff and car weight to push around.

Still can't confirm it though

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:08 am

This is strange , all the Subaru factorf WSMs I've seen show L EA82T gearboxes as having the wider ratio gearset (3.545 - 0.78) and the 3.7 final drive ratio . These manuals cover most if not all english speaking countries and they don't quote USDM cars as being particularly different transmission wise . In fact I can't find details of any wide ratio box , PT or AWD , that is different ratio wise at all .
I'd have to look again but I think XT6s were the only locking AWD box that differed by having its unique 3.9 diff crown wheel and pinion setup .

Cheers A .

Phizinza · Post by **Phizinza** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:38 am

He knows the EA82T gearboxes use the 0.87 ratio 5th. He want's to know what the 3.9 EJ D/R's have, as in same as the other EJ boxes of the time and the non-turbo EA82 PT boxes (0.78) or the turbo EA82t boxes (0.87).

Please don't call the EA82/ER27 FT4WD gearbox an AWD gearbox, its confusing and an incorrect term.

stamp_licker · Post by **stamp_licker** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:29 pm

From another post re 91 liberty dr

brumbyrunner wrote:When you're caculating gearing you need to look at the gearbox ratios as well as the diff ratio. I've mixed and matched to get the lowest possible gearing from factory ratios but for your application, you might not want that.
Are you happy with your gearing now? Unless it's been changed you will have:
1st 3.545
2nd 2.111
3rd 1.448
4th 1.088
5th 0.871
Diff 3.9:1
Low 1.196:1

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:44 pm

Turn it up , full time 4WD IS AWD . They both have 4 wheels and drive them all the time . They are two terms that mean the SAME thing .
The physical truth of the matter is that one has an open center diff with a viscous coupling where the other has an open center diff with a dog clutch on .

Quote 1987 L Factory WSM section 3-1 Manual Transmission and Differential
Service Procedure

Selective 4WD Page 29
Full-Time 4WD Page 63

Quote Legacy 1992 WSM section 3-1 Manual Transmission and Differential
W Service Procedure

2 Transfer Case and Extention (Full-time 4WD) Page 31
3 Transfer Case and Extention (Selective 4WD) Page 38 .

Section 3-1 Page 3 has a sectioned diagram of the said gearbox and a spiel on how its layed out titled 2) Full-Time 4WD .

A .

Numbchux · Post by **Numbchux** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:18 pm

discopotato03 wrote:This is strange , all the Subaru factorf WSMs I've seen show L EA82T gearboxes as having the wider ratio gearset (3.545 - 0.87) and the 3.7 final drive ratio . These manuals cover most if not all english speaking countries and they don't quote USDM cars as being particularly different transmission wise . In fact I can't find details of any wide ratio box , PT or AWD , that is different ratio wise at all .
I'd have to look again but I think XT6s were the only locking AWD box that differed by having its unique 3.9 diff crown wheel and pinion setup .

Cheers A .

yea, we definitely have the definition of "narrow" and "wide" backwards (I don't know who's right). a .871 5th puts the gears very close together....

stamp_licker wrote:From another post re 91 liberty dr

that answers my question. guess I'm going to be swapping them....might as well see if I can get my hands on a .738 gearset from a WRX.

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:33 pm

I tried to edit my earlier post by changing wide ratio gearset to 3.545 to 0.78.
My gearbox is a bastard L AWD one with bits from carby L (LR gears) , dual range L (front casings) single range AWD XT4 (rear extention and center diff + lock + 3.7 F Dr) DR AWD Lib (close ratio 3.545 to 0.87 gearset) .
Fair ding this box should have spots and whiskers on it !

Anyway to tell of the real world yes it is a bit short geared for highway use ie 3000 at 90 Km/k , ~ 3200 at 100 and ~ 3400 at 110 . 3.7 diffs are std in an RX Turbo and I currently use std 185/70/13 rubber .

I guess it depends on how much highway use you drive , I don't have much 100/110 close to me so for 70-80 its real good - with a 298k old EA82T ...
If you dont mind using larger diameter wheels you can get some of the ~ 11%
back you lose if you have the close ratio gearset . One of the advantages of the DR AWD boxes is that low-high range is syncromesh and grabbin LR is easy peasy .
I'm not doing the Dakar any time soon so the lower low range and 5-10% larger diameter wheels would work well for me - have a CrossBred kit and 16x7MY00 Rex wheels on ice .

As far as the lock goes my solenoids aren't wired up yet and I've not felt the need lock it anyway .

Lastly I cantbe certain that the Rex 0.738 5th gear pair would fit an AWD L box , even if it did it would be a pretty huge gap between 4th and 5th .

A .

Numbchux · Post by **Numbchux** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:10 pm

yea, I need the freeway gears. I'm about 2.5-3 hours from the Twin Cities, where most automotive events occur. and that trip is all at about 125kph. which, with a .871 5th and 3.9 axle gear is like 3700. if i put a WRX .738 5th in there, it'd be turning just above a comfortable 3000. That is a MASSIVE difference. and the mods I'm planning for the engine that will be mated to it will mean it'll have no problem maintaining that speed at that rpm.

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:30 am

I think you need to work out exactly what you have first , I went back to the beginning of this thread and you mention you are using an L AWD gearbox .

I've never read any genuine manual that said anything about any of these gearboxes having anything except 3.7 diffs and the tall/wide gearset . It DOES mention the 4WD DR boxes having 3.9 diffs and the short/close gearset but this is not the constant 4WD DR locking box .

All turbo L's have the wide gearing because turbo torque more easily pulls the tall/wide gearing .

The reason I know this is because THE only way to get the short/close gearset into an AWD L locking box is to use the set from a dual range AWD 1st gen Lib box . You can't use the carby L box gearset in ANY AWD box because some of the the countershaft gears are splined to the countershaft and the holes through ALL the countershaft gears are smaller to suit the part time 4WD countershaft .
L and EJ type AWD boxes have a hollow sleeve on the outside of the front diffs pinion and the countershaft gears fit on the outside of this sleeve and thats why the holes through them are larger .
The L Turbo single and dual range gearsets will fit most early single and dual range Lib boxes (SR to SR and DR to DR) but only when used in complete gear sets .
The ONLY available diff ratio for the L AWD locking boxes is 3.7 , the 3.9 as far as I know was ONLY used in the SR XT6 AWD gearbox so unless someone went to the considerable cost and effort to change diffs on you your AWD box if it's L Series will be 3.7 .
The L/XT4/XT6 AWD front diff pinion shaft is unique dimensionally and never used in any other cars , the EJ ones are different and and physicaly won't work .

A .

Numbchux · Post by **Numbchux** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:26 pm

I know exactly what I have. an RX FT4WD D/R trans with a 3.7 axle and .871 5th. I'm not asking about that.

I'm buying an EJ D/R from a 1st gen liberty. this is the trans that I'm asking about. all I know is that it's from a 1st gen liberty, and has a 3.9 axle ratio.

1st gen liberty AWD 5MTs have a .780 5th here in the states. that is acceptable. but a .871 is not.

stamp_licker confirmed my fear, that it does have a .871 5th. in which case, once I receive said trans I will pull it apart, put the 1.366 3rd and .972 4th from the EJ case I have in the basement in it, along with a WRX .738 5th.

I'm not talking about using any EA parts in this EJ box. or EJ parts in an EA box. I was only asking what gears that trans had in it stock, and that question was answered. Thank you.