Excessive rear wheel toe out

subalex · Post by **subalex** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:40 pm

I've got a big toe out problem with the right rear wheel (10mm) that I'm at odds about how to fix. Symptoms are that the car pulls to the right all the time, some erratic handling when turning left.

I've replaced the complete control arm and hub assembly for that side but it hasn't made a difference. My remaining options are to:
A) replace the whole rear crossmember, in case it's bent on one side
B) replace the diff hanger
C) replace the diff hanger mounts
D) get to the control arm mounts with a BFH, pull the control arm back forward with the wife's car tow bar fitted with my snatch strap (a little risky)

I am aware that the diff hangers flex when 4WDing and I've done a fair share of pretty tough stuff to cause that. The right side diff hanger mount looks like it might be bent inwards a little but I'm still not sold on the idea that it may cause that kind of alignment trouble.

Just to put more into the mix, my L-series wagon has steel Hi-Rise Subaru 3" lift blocks but I've not seen any scratch or bend marks from them moving around at all.

Has anyone else here had the same trouble and what was found to be the weakest link here that gets bent, causing this kind of problem??

fredsub · Post by **fredsub** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:03 am

did you try just loosening the 3 bolts on the trailing arm, let it re-align itself?

Post by **yarney** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:55 pm

Hi subalex i agree with fred jack up the rear loosen the three bolts in the shape of a triangle then drop the car slightly faster than normal then tighten them back up again.

If that dosn't work get a piece string and measure from the middle of the end of the front axle (middle of the wheel) to the same place on the rear axle

Do that on both sides that will tell you if you have bent something under the car they should be the same length.

Jan

subalex · Post by **subalex** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:40 pm

Thanks for the suggestions, I watched the mechanics do that when they noticed the problem while doing the wheel alignment. I don't know the results of the measurements though so I'll try that.

Ok, just did that and it measured 2465mm on the RH side and 2457mm on the LH. Those 8mm are making a noticeable difference.

So, what do you think fellas?

Post by **yarney** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:42 pm

Has anybody taken out the frount strut and not put the lift block back the right way???
If you wan't to get the wheels the same distance apart put a snatch strap around the lower control arm and around a lge tree on the other end and reverse back a little take it bit by bit till it is the same as the other side.
Hope it helps

Jan

daza · Post by **daza** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:02 pm

subalex wrote:So, what do you think fellas?

Sounds like something is bent, find a suspension place that does a free saftey check (pedders?) and see what they find.
If you changed the swing arm and it didn't fix the problem, then it's probably the rear crossmember.

Daza.

fredsub · Post by **fredsub** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:25 pm

yarney wrote:....
If you wan't to get the wheels the same distance apart put a snatch strap around the lower control arm and around a lge tree on the other end and reverse back a little take it bit by bit till it is the same as the other side.
Hope it helps

Jan

lol, these subes are so damned flexible.....,
btw, wouldn't a chain be better than a snatch strap which stretches (unles its an already buggered one?)? wonder if you actually did this?

subalex · Post by **subalex** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:56 am

I was thinking about that idea of a snatch strap myself. I've measured the front to back from the centre of the hubs and again from the back edge of the rims with the steering wheel dead ahead this time... it was slightly turned last time (dope). The measurements appear to be exactly the same on both sides now.

Still, this doesn't fix the 10mm toe out of that rear right wheel. I have the funny feeling I've brought the rear end around a round about too tight to quick. Sound like the cause to you?

I've got a new windscreen going in as of tomorrow along with some rust fixing around it so after I get it back I'll do some more measurements to work out how best to bend the hinge points back if that is possible. If not, I'll have to replace the whole cross member (don't want that - has all the brake and fuel lines attached and I don't want to disturb the lift blocks either.

I reckon I should be able to get a big hammer to the inner control arm mount to bring the back edge of the wheel out again right?

mroberts · Post by **mroberts** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:38 pm

Is there any way to do fine adjustment of rear toe ?

Bratgeebah · Post by **Bratgeebah** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:55 am

I have made my rear toe adjustable but its too much typing for two finger Gee.
Give me a call if you want 0407348391.

Gee.

mroberts · Post by **mroberts** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:32 pm

Thanks, got your number, when's a good time to call ?

You can delete your number now if you want.

Mike.

Soobeit · Post by **Soobeit** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:50 pm

How did you go with the adjustment, Im interested as MY rear is out quite a bit and cant get a good front alignment until I get this fixed. Have a feeling that this problem has been caused by the car transport company when my car was trucked down from Darwin last year, so pissed off. Found the rear left tie down point bent and torn, strap/chain rub on the paint work. This is what has led me to believe that the rear wheels were bent out of alignment. Dont know how well I'll go claiming it, probably been to long now. I havent driven it really since last year so thats why I havent picked these problems up. That will teach me to go over it with a fine tooth comb in the future.
A

subalex · Post by **subalex** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:24 pm

I've taken the time to jack up all the rear end and loosen off all the bolts for the rear cross member and diff hanger, suspension etc which of course included all the lift blocks. Then I tightened them up again with attention to trying to twist the crossmember back into shape. As yet, I haven't returned to have the alignment checked but it doesn't seem to have improved anything much. It did do a little and the handling is improved but the problem is still there.

I'll be getting back to it one day to replace the whole crossmember with the one from my spare car. Not a bad thing in that it has the rubber flap attachments on it too which I'll fit with larger flaps.

Alex

Soobeit · Post by **Soobeit** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 7:59 pm

cheers for reply, Did you ever talk to Bratgeebah about his custom adjustable rear toe?

subalex · Post by **subalex** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 7:26 am

No I haven't actually. Perhaps I should huh. I'd like to find out how to get adjustable toe if it's easier than doing the bar swap.

Soobeit · Post by **Soobeit** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:22 pm

Just a Q? I had a more thorough look at my tie down points and found that the front is bent the same way the rear one was. Could this have been the reason the toe went out in the first place? Could chaining it down incorrectly throw the alignment out? Im pretty pissed that this has happened to my car and will be following it up with the trucking company through to get this fixed asap.

pics to follow

Soobeit · Post by **Soobeit** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:43 pm

The front tie down

The rear tie down

subalex · Post by **subalex** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:55 pm

Personally, I'm already a little concerned about the front tow point being bent forwards a little through being snatched out of a deep clay bog recently by a Rodeo giving it plently of herbs. However, it isn't anything like as bad as yours are front and back. I'd be wondering how the *#&% they managed to tie it down so hard as to bend them like that just for carrying the thing. For sure, I'd be thinking the pressure needed to bend them like that could cause some chassis twisting. Not tightening the chains enough might allow your Brumby's suspension to bob up and down with each bump in the road so it would then rebound upwards to yank on the chain every time... whack whack whack. Get a bumpy road and you've got a lot of whacking those chains on your tie down hooks.

If I'm wrong in thinking this then tell me. That damage looks pretty bad to me.

Alex

Bratgeebah · Post by **Bratgeebah** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:44 am

That's terrible. Persue it for sure. What moron would do such a thing. I took my Brumby to a tyre shop years ago and they dinted the sills and the rails on my Brumby. Now I only take my wheels to tyre shops (off the car).
I agree with Subalex. It's either been tied down too hard or its bobbed up and down, yanking on the chain. I'm leaning toward the tied down to hard as there is no evidence of the hook/chain banging around in the hole of the tie down point. I just find it hard to believe someone would do that........actualy, I WANT to find it hard to believe someone would do it.........d***heads.
Contact your insurance company and email them the photo's.

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:29 am

Those tiedown points are very weak, its not hard to bend them especially if you snatch from them (not a good idea!). But because they are so weak I find it very hard to beleive any other part of the car would get bent as a result of any force on the tiedown points. After all, you can clearly see its the tiedown point itself which is bent.