Stay away from this business

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Silverbullet
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Stay away from this business

Post by Silverbullet » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:21 pm

Belair road auto electrical

I went in there looking for advice and/or solution to the wiring in my wagon resto. Heard he did good work and of the 6 places in Adelaide I emailed asking about full car re-wires he was 1 of 2 that said they could even do it. I took my 2 factory service manuals to point at and give him a rough idea of what I wanted, basically at least the front end re-wired with the new dash, add a few extra bits in like power feed for an amp, UHF, wiring for a bigger alternator, modernize the whole system a bit.

First of all, after I described what I wanted he basically asked me why was I bothering (not in so many words but) and why didn't I just use the original wiring (the 35 year old failing fusible link wiring) Further conversation gave me the impression he didn't want to do the job (didn't tell me this though) was reluctant to listen to me, didn't take much of what I had to say on board and was pretty arrogant the whole time. He insinuated it was going to cost more than I could afford, before I even told him my budget (a few thousand)

Eventually I asked him what was the best thing to do to get what I wanted. He said bring in all the wiring and electrical parts I can so we could lay it out and have a look at it, write down everything I want and see if it's possible. I asked if this time of day was okay because that's when I was driving past (sorta) on my way home, he said yes. Great I thought, finally getting somewhere. So that weekend I sorted out all the wiring I could (including the new dash and NZ wiring for that) boxed it up and went back the next week. I'll say here I was a bit hesitant to go back even at this point, based on his attitude the first time.

When I walked in at the same time as last time I told him I had everything in the car and could he come and go through it. This is the answer I got:
"No not really, this is a really busy time of day for me so why don't you take a seat over there and I'll be with you in about an hour"
:shock:
That's right, he was seriously asking me to sit over there and wait for an hour while he did his "mountain of paper work"
Instead of dealing with the customer who was right in front of him then and there, willing to throw a few K of work his way, he would rather catch up with other stuff and make me wait an hour and waste my time. When I told him I couldn't wait that long I had stuff to do he gave me more attitude and basically I just turned my back and walked out. Couldn't be bothered trying to talk to him any more.

So that's my story for the week. A very bad experience with what should be a professional tradesman that put me in a foul mood for the rest of the day. What really pissed me off was I went a fair way out of my way to get there, I am only available to do these things at that time of day and he seriously was telling me to just sit over there for an hour. Plus his insinuations that I wasn't going to be able to afford it anyway (because I'm not some rich looking old fart probably) his arrogance and whole attitude like he thought I was an idiot.

Blergh, I could rant and rave all day about it I'm so mad but that's enough. I've learnt my lesson to stay away from businesses on the posh side of town. I've had pretty good experiences with places during my resto up till now, I guess it was only a matter of time before I ran into an A-hole such as this.
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Post by El_Freddo » Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:09 pm

Send SuBaRiNo a PM - if you're willing to post it all to WA. While I haven't had him work on any of my wiring I know he does good stuff, and he's a personal friend of mine too.

I'm sure he'll sort it out and do it for a price you'll be happy with. The worst thing he can say is he's too busy or something of the like - but if you never ask you'll never know ;)

All the best with it. I hope you get what you're after! It's a big task to do what you're asking.

And you're right about that fella you saw - the customer always comes first! Paper mountains can always wait!

Cheers

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Post by Bantum » Fri Mar 20, 2015 3:06 am

Time to learn how to do it yourself ... :)

Re-wiring isn't that complicated, ( unless your colour blind ) just tedious - Get hold of those wiring diagrams & layout all the bits on the floor, ( it will take a bit room ) then go about matching the wire colours with those shown on diagrams. You should also draw up a mud map of where everything is to go ( for later reference ) - Take your time, start of with the smaller stuff till your confident & methodically go through each component added / removed - tick 'em of your list when done ... ;)

If you don't know how to solder or join wires etc. I'd suggest taking a short introductory course on automotive electronics at your local college / uni ... :)

Love your work so far, Keep at it I'm sure you'll get there eventually ... :)

Ciao, Bantum ...

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Post by steptoe » Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:58 am

or if you have seen how the smart ones do them - on a wall board so you are not on your knees, crouching, squashing internal (and maybe external :) ) organs, Drill holes for zip ties to tie the original bits up high, make the new one just below and 'just' be able to copy it ??

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Post by Subydoug » Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:06 am

Its the unfortunate nature of that sort of job. Not many people want to touch old cars and I can understand why. I see it all the time with my work. Classic lazy tradesman. Somewhere in there head it becomes acceptable to turn away money.

Not sure when Paul's back but he recently got some work done for two of his cars for a decent price. Joint was somewhere over east. Il email him asking about it for you.

Regards

Doug

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Post by username » Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:32 am

Had the same problem inquiring at an auto elec in port adelaide (now closed) about wiring a tacho dash in, his response was "why would you bother?"

Did it myself in a couple of hours and kept the cash in my pocket

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Post by Tigger » Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:05 pm

You would think that working on newer cars would be more tedious with more electronics involved!

I am sorry that you had such a bad experience but as others have said above, why not give it a try yourself, that way you know it will be done the way you want it to be done :)
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Post by Silverbullet » Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:10 pm

El_Freddo wrote:Send SuBaRiNo a PM - if you're willing to post it all to WA. While I haven't had him work on any of my wiring I know he does good stuff, and he's a personal friend of mine too.

I'm sure he'll sort it out and do it for a price you'll be happy with. The worst thing he can say is he's too busy or something of the like - but if you never ask you'll never know ;)
Didn't know he was still active, haven't seen him post for ages. Maybe I will shoot him a PM some time about it. But from this weeks last experience it has given me the determination to have a really good look at doing it myself. One positive from it I suppose.
Bantum wrote:Time to learn how to do it yourself ...

Re-wiring isn't that complicated, ( unless your colour blind ) just tedious - Get hold of those wiring diagrams & layout all the bits on the floor, ( it will take a bit room ) then go about matching the wire colours with those shown on diagrams. You should also draw up a mud map of where everything is to go ( for later reference ) - Take your time, start of with the smaller stuff till your confident & methodically go through each component added / removed - tick 'em of your list when done ...

If you don't know how to solder or join wires etc. I'd suggest taking a short introductory course on automotive electronics at your local college / uni ...

Love your work so far, Keep at it I'm sure you'll get there eventually ...

Ciao, Bantum ...
Looks like it is time to lay it all out, get a big cuppa, the 2 FSM's and start poking around with a multimeter. I do know how to solder happily, it's crimping spade terminals I hate with a passion. Will need to invest in a good crimping tool and quality terminals.
Subydoug wrote:Its the unfortunate nature of that sort of job. Not many people want to touch old cars and I can understand why. I see it all the time with my work. Classic lazy tradesman. Somewhere in there head it becomes acceptable to turn away money.

Not sure when Paul's back but he recently got some work done for two of his cars for a decent price. Joint was somewhere over east. Il email him asking about it for you.

Regards

Doug
I know what you mean, I guess these days most auto sparkies just want to plug their laptop into the OBD port, re-set the ECU or some such and charge their big fee. Was obvious this place I went to was doing pretty well anyway, guess that makes it easy for them to be picky.
steptoe wrote:or if you have seen how the smart ones do them - on a wall board so you are not on your knees, crouching, squashing internal (and maybe external :) ) organs, Drill holes for zip ties to tie the original bits up high, make the new one just below and 'just' be able to copy it ??
Not a bad idea, would definitely help with getting a proper picture of the situation. Sadly we are desperately short on space, would have nowhere to put a car sized piece of MDF :(
username wrote:Had the same problem inquiring at an auto elec in port adelaide (now closed) about wiring a tacho dash in, his response was "why would you bother?"

Did it myself in a couple of hours and kept the cash in my pocket
It is hard finding people that understand the obsession we have with old Subies :) I will look at it this weekend, I figure all the wires from the engine bay that the tacho dash needs must be in the big plug at the fuse box area, plus I'll need to add a couple of wires for the L series Hi/Lo switches in the gear box and some other things.
Tigger wrote:You would think that working on newer cars would be more tedious with more electronics involved!

I am sorry that you had such a bad experience but as others have said above, why not give it a try yourself, that way you know it will be done the way you want it to be done :)
They're nothing but a cloud of computers these days :rolleyes: Yep, looks like I'm cracking into it myself to either scare myself silly or come out on top. Worst case scenario is I screw it up completely and just end up making a new loom from scratch copying the 4 feet long page wiring diagram in one of my FSM's.

Thanks for the kind words everyone :) This sort of stuff pisses me off for a day or two but ultimately it strengthens my resolve to research a bit more and do it myself. As has been said, at least then I know I will get exactly what I want (if it works :rolleyes:)
Will it ever end!?
-EA81 TWIN CARB!!!!
-L series 5 speed
-Custom paint job
-2" lift
-Full custom re-wire
-L series front end
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Post by Subydoug » Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:29 pm

Paul mentioned it was AM auto's in QLD that did the wiring in his outback. He's not sure if they scratch make looms. He also mentioned a mob called Painless Wiring (as someone who's done their fair share of work with wire, I would not describe it as painless :D), might be worth a shot.

If you do end up doing it yourself, just be mindful that it will be easier to tidy up externally, Longer is better then short, Dont go stupid large on the wire gauge, nothing uses much power. If your unsure measure the current with a DMM and decide if you need more AWG. Use the FSM as a guide and do what you feel is the best way. You dont have to optimize for manufacturing so you can get away with making things better. I would also piss off the loom running under the radiator and just have it branch along the firewall.

Il ramble on forever if I dont stop. You get the idea.

Regards

Doug

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Post by dfoyl » Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:41 pm

>Will need to invest in a good crimping tool and quality terminals.

http://www.carroll.com.au. Have used them for years, good quality terminals. There is some absolute rubbish out there in cheap terminals. Crimping tools buy direct from places like DMC in the US, or any of the Weidmuller disty's.
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Post by Silverbullet » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:26 pm

Thanks for the link/info dfoyl, that looks like good stuff.

Doug I have looked at the "Painless performance" brand DIY looms and I don't think they would be suitable for my application. They are definitely geared more towards American muscle car restos and hot rods. Probably would be a few things missing for an 80's Jap car.
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-2" lift
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-L series front end
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Post by sven '2' » Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:18 am

Back in the day Belair Auto Electrical was called 'Frank Gready Auto Electrical' and was a top notch business. Still comes up on inter web searches. Great name for a tradesmen!!

Frank died I reckon mid-late 90s and the business was sold.

That is just shite service though!

Dave or AM auto have been around for ages and have good rep. There is another member on here who was doing EJ looms, or maybe on RSLC, who people rated as well, but cannot recall his name.

Good luck!
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Post by vincentvega » Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:24 am

a few tips for you if you do decide to have a crack yourself.

quality insulated crimps (carroll is one of the better brands) will have 2 metal sleeves in them. the main one is part of the terminal itself and crimps down on the bare wire. The second sleeve is there to provide strain relief by crimping down on the insulation. If you look inside the cheaper connectors the second collar will be missing. Avoid these..

Buy yourself a proper ratchet crimping tool. If you strip your wires correctly these tools basically guarantee a quality joint every time with no effort. I use the "proskit" brand of this style tool. looks like jaycar is doing a no-name copy of the same.
http://www.jaycar.com.au/Tools-%26-Sold ... l/p/TH2000
These will allow you to do insulated plus non-insulated crimps (as well as all other types of crimp)

soldering is basically a big no-no in the automotive industry. If you pick a factory loom apart you will see that all the branching is done with crimp terminals not solder. The problem with soldering is the point at which the solder stops and the clean copper continues on the wire becomes a weak point and can fail due to vibration. If you do solder, make sure you fully support the wire either side of the joint with heatshrink or tape to prevent movement of the wire around the weak point.

Fuses are there to stop wiring fires. No other reason. When choosing a fuse size it needs to be small enough that the fuse will blow long before the wire gets hot. Fuses should be as close as practical to the source end of the wire ie right near the battery post.

any non fused wire (starter cable for example) should be double insulated. Have a look at your factory loom to confirm this. alternator B+ wire, starter wire etc are all double insulated. (split loom tube + tape normally)

I could go on for hours on this stuff but that will get you started and just ask if you need more info.

Cheers
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Post by Silverbullet » Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:32 pm

That's interesting to know Sven, sad it seems the service has gone down the toilet.

Thanks for the tips Vincent! I had an inkling soldering was a bad idea due to vibration and stress cracking. If I go ahead with it myself it could be tricky finding enough different colors of wire :rolleyes: Going to have to label every single wire at both ends, up on a peg board. In reality is it better to have the fuse box in the engine bay next to the battery? I have learned this week in the stock setup all the power to the entire car (apart from the starter) goes through 2 pieces of fusible link wire coming off the + battery connection. Obviously nothing must draw very much power in these cars as Doug says, that is sort of a relief.

Still thinking about this, maybe I will try and get in contact with Subarino Dave and see what his advice would be, or any help he can provide.
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Post by sven '2' » Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:06 am

Crazy I know, but have you contacted Subaru??

Never know, NOS floating about a very dusty shelf somewhere?!
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Post by vincentvega » Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:36 pm

i would be careful with your "nothing must draw very much power" assumption. Those fusible links are a fuse. They are not an indication of how much current the loads connected to them are pulling.

safest bet is to measure the actual current drawn and spec cable / fuses accordingly, or copy the factory setup.
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brumbyrunner wrote:And just to clarify the real 4WD thing, Subarus are an unreal 4WD.

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More to it ...

Post by Bantum » Tue Mar 24, 2015 3:48 pm

There are also a few improvements that can / should be done :

- Reroute the main headlights through a relay mounted in engine bay ( near the fusible links, or close as you can to the front ) to stop the ignition switch from overheating ...

- Same with the starter motor - put a relay near or just above the starter to improve start-ups ... ( there are diagrams on here for them )

- Add : Electronic Points Breaker - for improved performance & reliability ... ( bonus of not having to fit new points all the time )

- Add : Also would be a good time while your at it to add some form of electronic security system / dead switch, door locking mechanisms / power windows etc. Its not to hard to do any of these, just make sure to follow installation instructions ... ;)

P.S. - these additional items don't have to done at the same time, can be added dividually later. Just make allowances for them when in the planning stages.

Just to be sure to measure the current drawn through your system to get the right gauge of wire. ( if you adding new wire ) You can re-use the old wiring, just make sure it isn't corroded or the covering is failing.

Finally make sure to re-wrap everything when done, will help to keep it in good shape with additional heat shrink & spiral cable wrap ...

Cheers, Bantum ...

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Post by Silverbullet » Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:56 pm

sven '2' wrote:Crazy I know, but have you contacted Subaru??

Never know, NOS floating about a very dusty shelf somewhere?!
I am discouraged from walking in and asking for parts for my old car from Subaru. Last time I did I had the usual discussion of "So is it a Brumby or an L series???" And eventually worked out their books don't go back far enough despite parents having actually bought the car from there :( Well that was that dealership anyway, maybe some others are more helpful. I have to start desperately looking for a genuine firewall rubber grommet though (big one for the main loom) as mine is perished.
vincentvega wrote:i would be careful with your "nothing must draw very much power" assumption. Those fusible links are a fuse. They are not an indication of how much current the loads connected to them are pulling.

safest bet is to measure the actual current drawn and spec cable / fuses accordingly, or copy the factory setup.
I agree, just read in the FSM that if the fusible link wire gets very hot in less than 10 seconds, there is approximately 150A of current draw through the wire :shock: So I will copy the wire gauge that is already there where possible. I will probably go one bigger if I plan to add accessories into a particular circuit. Here's a question, would it be possible/good idea to replace the fusible links with circuit breakers?
Bantum wrote:There are also a few improvements that can / should be done :

- Reroute the main headlights through a relay mounted in engine bay ( near the fusible links, or close as you can to the front ) to stop the ignition switch from overheating ...

- Same with the starter motor - put a relay near or just above the starter to improve start-ups ... ( there are diagrams on here for them )

Just to be sure to measure the current drawn through your system to get the right gauge of wire. ( if you adding new wire ) You can re-use the old wiring, just make sure it isn't corroded or the covering is failing.

Finally make sure to re-wrap everything when done, will help to keep it in good shape with additional heat shrink & spiral cable wrap ...

Cheers, Bantum ...
Thanks, the headlight relays are a given :rolleyes: The factory wiring has a big thick wire going straight from the battery + to the starter, is there much improvement to this?

Thanks for the help and encouragement so far guys, I'm getting my brain into auto electrician mode lately (:rolleyes:) and the more I pour over the FSM wiring diagrams the more I think I may actually be able to pull this off :) I'm liking the big peg board idea and I think a test probe/scope is on the list of tools to get. I will have to make sure every single individual circuit works before I take the loom off the peg board. And I'm thinking even if I spend $500 on tools and materials I'm still way in front compared to if I got a sparkie to do this for me plus I'll have the tools for life.

And today I answered my own question about the instrument dimmer switch; every light bulb controlled by that potentiometer is simply spliced into the pots signal wire which runs from the instrument cluster to the glove box.
Will it ever end!?
-EA81 TWIN CARB!!!!
-L series 5 speed
-Custom paint job
-2" lift
-Full custom re-wire
-L series front end
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sven '2'
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Post by sven '2' » Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:13 pm

Silverbullet wrote:I am discouraged from walking in and asking for parts for my old car from Subaru. Last time I did I had the usual discussion of "So is it a Brumby or an L series???" And eventually worked out their books don't go back far enough despite parents having actually bought the car from there :( Well that was that dealership anyway, maybe some others are more helpful. I have to start desperately looking for a genuine firewall rubber grommet though (big one for the main loom) as mine is perished.
Try, 'libfixer' on RSLC - a SA version of FROG - a top bloke too
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Searching ...

Post by Bantum » Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:18 pm

Silverbullet wrote: ... Would it be possible / good idea to replace the fusible links with circuit breakers ?
Most certainly is, just have to find them ... ;)
Silverbullet wrote: ... Re starter cable, is there much improvement to this ?
Sorry I'm not talking about the starter cable, rather the solenoid that engages it from the ignition ...
See here for more info :Adding a starter relay

Keep asking questions & you'll get there ... :)

P.S. - I've added a few more bits to the list of things to do ... ;)

Cheers, Bantum ...

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