Why Off-Road a Subaru?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:17 pm

A good question, food for thought.

A friend of mine recently sold his twin ARB-locked, 5 inch lifted, 35 inch-tired 80 Series for a strange reason: It was just too damn capable. Even the most compicated, steep and rocky tracks were steam-rollered down to boardom.

With land-use issues looming, rego crack-downs and track closures, I can really see his point.

Can you see what I'm getting at? Maybe we've had it right all the time.

stinky · Post by **stinky** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:22 pm

Damn straight! I've always looked at it that way. I go 4wd'ing with friends who have big double locked rigs and they effortlessly go over stuff that I have to work at. I think I'd end up finding tracks/trails that pushes a big rig as much as the current ones do the subaru, and that would end up in me rolling it or worse

vincentvega · Post by **vincentvega** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:36 pm

my reason is simple. driving a big 4x4 round the city sux.

I have a car that handles beautifully on the road, and still takes me wherever i want to go offroad.

If i had 2 cars i would maybe consider buying a "real 4x4" but i will never drive one to work every day

smoov · Post by **smoov** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:41 pm

interesting topic...

call me a traitor, but im thinking about tossing my subaru for an 80 series cruiser with the abovementioned mods!!

only simply because there is much much more aftermarket support for these vehicles, and a plethora of mods and options available.

also, another reason, is because i'd like to switch to a turbo diesel.

don't get me wrong. i love my subaru, but, i don't think i want to go too much further with it, and I think the 80 series may well be a bit more reliable than what my subaru is at the moment (touch wood, all going well so far...)

Nathan - what do you mean with rego crackdowns? are you talking about pink slip audits or something? they would attack my car severly! Im thinking they would attack most of ours (oversized tyres at least for the 27" brigade)

Fang · Post by **Fang** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 6:06 pm

my reason is simple. driving a big 4x4 round the city sux.

Thats the exact reason I wanted a Subaru as well - I love the size of my Suby

fredsub · Post by **fredsub** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 6:13 pm

Exactly, with the subie you got to be choosy with your path,but you still get where you want to go, I've done a few big trips to places where all you see is the big rigs except yours

I was a 4wd greenie, never did anything serious,had just put on the lift kit and considering my first big trip, and was enquiring about them tag along tours....I said I had a subaru.....I was fairly deflated at the time about the replies.......
well, I did that first trip, and went to more places than those tag along tours and went further...and took my time...all solo......
For me, off-roading, technically I don't see need to have a larger vehicle.....but eventually perhaps just for space/capacity reasons...certainly Not for getting to places and a bit of fun......

Still with this topic, I'd like to say something about Subaru focusing more on vehicles for the tarmac....I'd like to see Subaru come up with something thats you can drive away from the dealer and its more capable off-road than a L series with 2" lift....am I a minority wishing this?....
I have 2 uncles, both with Foresters....one lives on a farm with 10km track access, the other for visiting his daughter..another dirt/track 20km, with some extreme patches...both put on taller tires that the dealer recommended.....you see my point? both could use a car with more clearance/better suspension, and these are people that would not even consider modding a vehicle for lift kit,etc,etc.....

So off-roading a New Subaru ? that is a question............

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 6:35 pm

Sorry Alex, I should have clarified that: The cops are cracking down on modified fourbies in the cities/peripherals, and so far most of us lifted Subaru owners have been unscaithed. I think the big reason is Subarus are not viewed by many (coppers that is) to be a 4WD, therefore they don't see them (if that makes sense?).

I go 'wheeling for the challenge, for the sake of 'wheeing. I don't compete, and the sports I choose to participate in require only light 4WD work if any.

If I got a GU with Haultech, 37s and 7 inches of lift, that challenge would pretty much disappear; And in the end, the only reason I'd modify my truck would be to show off to the other 4x4 owners at the potential capability of my vehicle.

But that is me, and I'm pretty strange.

subalex · Post by **subalex** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:03 pm

I completely agree with the concept raised that Subaru should be creating at least slightly more factory modified, raised, lifted models. Just like a sports pack you can buy with spoilers and other rubbish, why not get really useful things to help it in the job intended, or at least HINTED at. Decent low range would be nice too. Look at us all clammering for the better sized L-series with it's far superior low range to anything else since. Converting EJ boxes with L-series bits to make up for it etc.

I agree wholeheartedly with Mudrat on the point initially raised about enjoyment we get out of driving our Subies far earlier in the piece compared to a modified 80 series or alike. It's the old story of overcompensation to me. Fellows around here try drawing attention to themselves for one reason or another - biggest exhaust, shiniest paint, biggest tyres, biggest, shiniest wheels, tallest antenna, highest 80 or GU or GQ or 100 ... whatever.... all with they want to get more attention from their mum. The worst thing to me is that they have so much space in them going to waste every minute they drive them too. I've got five kids... I might get a Delica one day at least to avoid the many and varied stereotypical comments drivers of the above mentioned so often deserve. Until then, horses for courses and I ain't taking ALL of them on any trip soon. I really enjoy the constant comparisons with hiluxes, GQ's, Landie's, Suzukis, Pajeros etc we get in the NSW Subaru club. I hate that we're so outnumbered but I love seeing that we get everywhere they do and enjoy the driving experience so much more. Heck, half the time we do it easier and better anyway.. no BS about it.

Interesting to note that Subaru's parent company isn't GM anymore (no more Saabaru project any more - YAY!) but now Toyota has bought it off GM and Subaru has already been working on the finishing touches of it's new diesel engines (2.0 and 2.2). Europeans are buying diesels for all kinds of cars in droves. With Toyota's much more famous 4x4 heritage does anyone else here think this new connection could spawn some more hard edged Subies? I hope so.

smoov · Post by **smoov** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:09 am

i think subaru's have always been built as a soft roader. Quite a capable softroader at that.

Don't get me wrong, I have pushed the envelope with my subaru, and have shocked a few people about its capabilities - but not without a cost. About 1/2 of the times I go bush, there is some form of damage, that requires extensive repairs.

Subarus do have their weaknesses, the biggest I find in my L is the damned monocoque chassis. Im sick to death of ripping out captive nuts that hold the gearbox crossmember, im sick of bonded metal coming undone, and Im sick to death of bending areas where the radius rod anchor points meet with the 'chassis'.

If there only was a subaru with a proper chassis, it'd certainly make my life a little easier.

Having said that, it probably would be a flaw in itself - it'd loose a lot of its characteristics, weight being one of them.

Driveshafts are another huge problem with me. I've gone through six this year. SIX. I am the laughing stock of my mates!

I want a bit more life out of my driveshafts!!

Subaru's are also not designed for anything wet or muddy - the front and rear wheel bearings ARE NOT SEALED, and prolonged exposure to water and such will guarantee you a shortened lifespan of these (of a month or two after exposure). Having said that, a lot of the subaru isn't water or mud friendly - like the engine for example. I done my last motor in with a mud crossing, and it took up mud into the timing belts, tensioners, etc.

Now, many like to tinker with their subaru, and I used to also when i was studying, but with my work becoming ever so more hectic, I think its time to step up to a recreational vehicle (which I do use on weekends) that is a little more reliable, and up to the task a bit more.

If they released a diesel subaru, i probably still won't be able to consider it as a replacement, as the cons still outweigh the pro's.

Subaru has a definate issue they need to address with the low range gearing with newer models. Perhaps this is a sign that subaru no longer intend to take their cars where the old MY's and L's venture? Could also explain the huge overhangs front and rear which create poor approach and departure angles?

I have considered the 1st generation subaru forester as a replacement for my L as the dedicated offroad vehicle, but alas, with its piss poor Low range, and really bad overhangs front and rear, it makes it a bad proposition - even with the mods available. Im not prepared to spend another $3000 (lets say) on a L series low range gearset conversion, and another $2000 on lift, wheels and tyres, on top of a $15,000 asking price for a neat, low km forester, when for that $20,000 (or even less!), I can buy a neat Hilux Surf import 3.0 turbo diesel, with a low range gearing subarus would only dream about!

PeeJay · Post by **PeeJay** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:59 am

This is why I like my Subarus:

1) It's not a big, clunky 4x4 (ie can be used as rally car...). It's almost a normal road car but can go very fast when I need it to, and will go almost anywhere off road with only the smallest mods (you should see some of the places I got my old MY with no mods!).

2) $$ not $$$$$$$

3) It's a Subaru

4) Find me something remotly similar for the same price.

daza · Post by **daza** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:58 pm

My $0.02, I don't think Subaru ever intended the "MY" or "L" to be as capable off road as they are, I also don't think they intended them to be so easily modified for off road performance. It seems to me that the current "Forrester" is what the Wagons where always meant to be. While the Implimentation has gotten softer, I don't think the intention has. Subaru never tried to build a "Daily drivable off roader", they build "somewhat off roadable Daily drivers". I love my Suby, but it's Not standard, if I ever decide I need a later model vehical, It wont be a Subaru because they don't make anything suitable. The funny thing is most of the Serious 4wd's have gotten so soft they are realisticly equivelent to a lifted wagon, with the reliablity of a newer standard vehical, and the luxo. I just hope "Old brumbys never die..."

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:01 pm

SIX driveshafts Smoov?

This may sound like a really dumb question . . . seeing as you've replaced 6 driveshafts and all . . . but how are you breaking them? Like what's causing it you think?

I drive like a madman, have a huge suspension lift and am still on my first set for the year - and they've not even a clickety click click between them. I get the guaranteed reco ones - which do you get (I'll make sure I never get a set!)?

smoov · Post by **smoov** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:14 pm

for some reason, my car didnt like 4" strut tops front and rear.

May 2005 = First the front driver's side went. Other front shaft had split its boot. The two rears had split boots, so I decided to replace them also. All 4 Old Shafts were in since January 2004.

June 2005 = the rear driver's side fell off two weeks later...i think two rears were MY shafts, as they were shorter than the older ones.... mechanic's error, and he fixed it with no cost to me.

august 2005 = i replaced my motor (fresh motor as old one spun a main bearing), reverted back to 3" strut tops, and replaced my radius rod bushes, front and rear wheel bearings, and a few other mods and improvements

september = the front driveshafts started to fail..... AGAIN. they started to click, so I sourced a set of front ones from elsewhere.... from being ripped of by my mechanic and my bad experiences, I decided to source and install these myself, and touch wood, almost 2 months on, all's good.

october 2005 = after a recent outing over a week ago, after some four wheelin and spirited sideways action, i have disintegrated a passenger side radius rod bush

im absolutely over repairing this car....

PeeJay · Post by **PeeJay** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:35 pm

What the heck do you do to it??

fredsub · Post by **fredsub** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:32 pm

SIX driveshafts Smoov?

does driving with reckless abandon have anything to do with it

Hey theres some great points getting raised here, I like it!!

Subaru's "hinting" at some off-road ability with new models (Forester) is appallling actually, almost deceptive,
People who want the daily driver, and then go to the fav camping spot, or the farm on the weekend buy Subarus, then they burn the clutch out in <20kkm,
and say WTF? these aren't 4wd adventurer ppl, they are just doing a regular trip that they deceptively believed the car could do, so they blame the car!!

its so funy, I never seen a clutch so stuffed, the Forester couldn't move at all!!

here's a "soft" off-roader example...

http://www.landrover.com.au/au/en/Vehic ... nology.htm

Its got a Monocoque body,
Unladen (kg) no options 1555 - 1640
Urban 9.11 l/100km, wow nice milage, better than my L
Extra Urban 6.7 l/100km

The Forester, Unladen mass kg 1405, so its only 150kg less, about the weight of a couple of passengers......and you get a whole lot less.
Sure compare the price, cheapest Forester $31k, cheapest FreeLander $39k, but if the Forester just f**ks up after 1 yr of doing your weekend trip, its money poorly spent.
So why would you off-road a new Subaru? nah, you wouldn't

subalex · Post by **subalex** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:35 pm

It is interesting hearing so many experienced Subie owner/drivers/modifiers who have the same opinions. After owning a top dollar model (an 02 Outback limited - manual of course

) and catching the bug for some more off-roading style fun - researching the SubaXtreme and Scorpion gear and crunching the best numbers possible... plus maintenance, plus all those paint scrape costs... well... a year on and now the Outback project is long gone and the 3" lifted L-series is a much better bang for your buck and there isn't anything that stacks up against it for people/luggage room, comfort, ease of finding replacement parts, insurance and rego and petrol etc. We do lament the gong sounding the end of the age though. Gone are the part-timers and off-roading fitments as standard (ie. steel sump guards, adjustable height control and CV boot protectors). Who wants ABS or airbags either? Not to say that there wasn't many a great idea stuck on that old Outback.

I really like the newer Foresters with the 2.5 litre engines but what we miss is no different to the features any 'old school' fourby owner will forever miss on any brand. (I can hear violins already)

Regarding the last couple of messages on CV's though. I've had the CV's in mine for around 14 months - put new ones in with the lift kit, shocks and springs... I drive hard too - love corners on road and not many cars can do a U-turn like these babies can... not a problem at all (touching wood too). I've heard plenty of stories of guys doing theirs in after only 10,000ks. Advice to me has been that those guys didn't have many friends to weigh the car down often enough so the angles chewed them up. Me, I've always got a couple of passengers at least, and keep boot full of tools, child seats and prams to weigh it down all the time. Sometimes more IS more.