Oil ? for new engine ea81

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:08 pm

ok so we will all have a different favourite oil but I want to know your views on the details of what oil you would use if-
you had a fully reconditioned ea81 engine. Didnt use high revs very often and lived in the colder climate of Oz.
I have, prior to recoing, used semi synthetic 15W-40. I cant see the value in $80 full synthetic.
From what I've readin USMB the stock oil from the factory was 10W40 non syn

your views and why?

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:30 pm

XLD 20W50 15 years and 400,000km of EA81's on this, from minus 5 C to 42 C ambient temps. Think XLD classic might be more specific to these old OHV clatter boxes with more impact absorbing additive package ? More sulphites, sulphates, phosphates ???

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:26 am

Speak to your builder about the oil to use in the run in phase and one to use regularly - if he knows his EA81s, which from what you've told me seems to be true, he'll have knowledge of the right stuff to use

RSR555 would also be good to pick brains on this one

Also, if you need someone to help with the run in you've got my number

Cheers

Bennie

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:04 pm

errr....darling wife, have to run in Tweety and do it properly....need to head for the hills....need a man with knowledge to join me like Scott....see you in two weeks....

hooks up camper......

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:14 pm

happy 1000th post there Tony !!

Brumby Kid · Post by **Brumby Kid** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:07 pm

Tweety wrote:errr....darling wife, have to run in Tweety and do it properly....need to head for the hills....need a man with knowledge to join me like Scott....see you in two weeks....

hooks up camper......

The better you do your run in the better engine you will be!
This is perfect, however I also advise a trip across the border to open her up a bit... and then see what the Adelaide hills can do for you haha

I was advised to use Penrite HPR 30, i'ts a 20W60, packaging says 20W50 with extra 10 to make it 60. Its a full mineral oil.
My engine loves to carbon up (not sure if it's because of a rich weber or lack of EGR setup or something else ) 2 weeks ago I moved to Penrite HPR diesel, same oil in every way except more detergent. Goes alright, gave me that same extra pickup fresh oil does and is staying clean longer. Changed the filter a few days ago as recommended and it seemed quite dirty with real black oil coming out, while the sump oil still seemed reasonably new. Quite happy with it and hope it does something good to clean my engine out.

Cheers Cam

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sun Jul 27, 2014 12:10 pm

Then there is aptly named running in oil, think , by Valvoline. For idling on only, not for any load, driving.

coxy · Post by **coxy** » Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:05 pm

Running in Oil is not just for idling Steptoe that is rubbish.

There are a number of running in oils, All have the following in common they contain no as in Zero Friction Modifiers, They are all Mineral Oils and generally around 10W40 weight.

When talking Oils the first number as in the above means 10 weight for ease of starting in cold climates, So then a 20W50 meand thicker when cold as ambient temps are higher.

The second figure is the weight at running temperature hence in a hotter climate use a bigger number.

Oils such as the noted Penrite as a 30W 60 might be fine in Darwin but not in cooler climates.

So use a running in oil and do not either Baby the engine nor abuse it like a 14 YO on a Joyride.

Bearings of the standard plain variety take about 150 K's to gain a working surface so are then run in, Rings take most of the time and if you take it too easy or use an Oil with Friction Modifiers or even a Semi Synthetic it will Glaze the bores and the rings will not bed in properly especially if Hard Chrome plated instead of cast Iron.

That then means lower compression and oil usage issues as well as poor performance and bad economy.

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:52 pm

Thanks guys.
I'm hesitant Brumby Kid to use that diesel oil. appearance of oil is very much not something you rely on when judging the right oil to use. Also your engine is fully reconditioned so it shouldnt need extra detergents to keep it clean.

Coxy, with your explaination of the first number and the second number of eg 20W-50. On that then I would be clever to use say 10W-40. We are in a cold climate here in Strathbogie. Bur in this cold climate I wouldnt be riding the trike unless it is on a nice day. I wouldnt be starting it up at -3 and riding it to the nearest own for a can of VB. But the 10W would I assume lubricate the engine better in the initial stages of start up and put less strain on the starter....am I on the right track??

In the summer months I assume, again on your explaination...that 20W-50 or 20W-50 vintage as Steptoe suggested, would be ideal for an older designed engine.

10W-40 in the winter 20W-50 in the summer? Two oil changes a year if I do say 16,000kms a year.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:35 pm

:cough: dunno about rubbish coxy, just as I remembered directions on a running in oil container. As for not babying the new engine - all for that

and that method has stood the test of time on one engine I have. It saw varied speeds, up hills in higher gears, labouring almost, to bed the rings in. Blew two oil pressure switches and bled out to about 500ml of good old XLD (when it was in a light blue container) I somehow broke a ring - reringed it at 70,000miles, run in again same method as before. Saw 100mph that night

Engine has 350,000kms on it now and still sweet after 30 years !

What ever decision you make is yours !

Brumby Kid · Post by **Brumby Kid** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:17 am

Running in oil is designed for the dyno, costs about $30 a liter.
The idea is that you do 3 FULL runs on the dyno and then the engine is run in and you can do whatever.
My source? RC Performance engines, mate used to work there and thats what they do. http://www.rcperformanceengines.com.au/
The owner tells you were to go if you have a V8 and want less than 1000hp, he will also tell you exactly how much hp it will make before it is built. If you guys ever want some serious head work done send them here. The guy that works on heads is one of the worlds best, if not the best and that is not an exaggeration.

Assuming you get the same weight and type (mineral/ synthetic) diesel is exactly the same in every way except it has more detergent. I know my engine shouldn't need it but it can't hurt and it loves to make carbon

As for running in without a dyno and run in oil I was always told that putting it under load, and varying the revs are good. However high revs too early in it's life probably aren't the best.
My engine builder (Tony Knight) advised the following...
Use HPR30 oil for the run in and after
Oil change at 200km, 500km, 1000km, 2000km, then every 5000km

Brumby Kid · Post by **Brumby Kid** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:04 pm

Found a link in your engine build thread Tweety. Originally posted by Venom for the exhaust info. Food for thought from the aero boys
http://www.subarubrat.com/airscooby.htm
"Break it in with 20 weight mineral oil for about 10 hrs or until the oil consumption stabilizes at almost nothing. Then use Aero Shell 15-50. Its an ashless dispersant high temperature, the best oil there is."

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:39 am

Gawd Cam..... 5 oil changes before 5000 kms? crickey... man has to be a millionaire.

Based on some opinions.

I'll start with a cool climate oil like Penrite 10W-40 (maybe 15W-50 in the summer or 20W-50 penrite vintage seems a good idea from Steptoe.

Change it after 300kms and 2000kms then changes with vintage every 8000 kms. 5000kms is too little IMO. When most good oils last 20,000 kms nowadays I think changing every 5000 is an overkill.
Keep revs on the lower scale with hill climbing auto gears held with some engine strain. Stop every 15 minutes let cool, repeat.

what you think guys?

But I will get the builders opinion.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:41 am

who out there still thinks dealers change the engine oil at the first free 1500km "service" ?

Brumby Kid · Post by **Brumby Kid** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:04 pm

Whoops I meant after 200kms, then after ANOTHER 500, not at 500. Sorry
Wish I was a millionaire!
I have no doubt you can leave the oil in for longer without damage, however I see MASSIVE improvements with every oil change. Probably doesn't cause damage leaving it in, though I do believe it helps from the improvements I see

Cheers Cam

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:02 pm

Agree Steptoe, they change it only after the first 15,000 kms thereabouts unless you insist. Which I have in the last 3 new cars I've owned, Hyundai i30 diesel, VW Tiguan and Proton Jumbuck- all had oil change at 1000 kms.