What are legal modifications in NSW

2nd Hand Yank · Post by **2nd Hand Yank** » Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:52 am

I just had a chat with a local automotive engineer when I went to see about getting my body lift certified.

For vehicles originally with a weight over 1100 kg, (L Series squeaks by)
you can go to a 5.3L naturally aspirated
or a 3.something L turbo/forced-air/boosted motor.

For vehicles originally under 1100kg (Brumby's for sure)
you can go with a naturally aspirated motor up to 3.something L;
basically any naturally aspirated Subaru motor but their biggest 6 cylinder motor?
Or you can go to 2.something with boost

There is a catch though...

You need to make sure that whatever motor you swap in,
the brakes that came with that motor, or equivalent in braking force
go into what you put the motor into.
Ditto for the differential type and size. Doesn't have to be the same ratio though.

I talked about using my L Series 4wd manual trans with an EJ and he said there's no drama's there, as long as it fits.

Also about tyre size:

Until you go up to 50mm diameter over the vehicle's placarded tyre you don't need to perform a braking test.
I'm lucky that my tyres are only 40 mm taller than original equipment.
I still want bigger tyres for offroad, but maybe I'd be fine if swap them the for day I'm going offroad.
But yes, bigger is 100% roadworthy as long as you book (and pass

) a braking test with the engineer.

Final Drive swapping?

As long as it is done right, sounds okay and isn't obvious at the speedo then its probably fine.

2nd Hand Yank · Post by **2nd Hand Yank** » Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:57 am

what this means to me in terms of a possible EJ swap:

- Can any EJ'd Subaru have brakes that will fit behind 14" Sunraysia's
Or will I need to do a 5-lug hub conversion to fit EJ brakes?
- If I need to do a hub conversion, do any wheels come in 15"? I prefer meaty sidewalls for airing down
- Do any EJ'd Subaru's come without ABS braking, for ease of converting my L Series?
- Would any ABS brake systems be an easy swap into a L Series?
- Do any EJ Subarus come with 4.11:1 or 4.56:1 final drive, gears that can be made to fit in my 4wd trans?
- Do any of these same EJ's with 4:11:1 or 4.56:1 gears come with limited slip rears? Limited slip fronts?

I could theoretically pick any EJ motor,
but I still think I'd want a EJ22 or smaller
so my 4wd manual trans can still live behind it.

I also think I'd strongly prefer 4.11:1 gearing.
But 4.56:1 gearing might also be worth it for the same amount of effort.

I had a look under my car recently and my rear gearing is stamped 3.70:1

As it is,
I can sort of use 5th gear at 75 km/h and I need it for cruise by 95 km/h
but watching my fuel economy back when I lived in WA
my fuel economy was the same or slightly lower at 103-109 km/h than it was at 115-125km/h
(before my speeding tickets

... doh! )
so the useable driving range with my EA82 is much higher than is usefull in most parts of Australia.
That and I'd rather sacrifice a tiny bit of highway economy for much more comfortable offroading.

taza · Post by **taza** » Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:11 pm

For most of your questions a first gen Foz or 2nd Gen lib fit perfectly. 15" rims, no ABS(base models only), EJ20 or 22, bigger brakes(than your L), etc...

Why not just buy a wrecked car, then you have everything you need for a conversion.

I find with my 4.11 gearing that doing 130-140km/hr I'm sitting on almost 4000rpm, my economy is then thrown out the window and I get about 10-11l per 100km. Although at 110 I'm still not happy with it as it's doing 3200rpm, however at 100 when I'm just below 3000rpm I can get 6-8l per 100km on average.

stilson · Post by **stilson** » Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:56 pm

Pushing a brick shaped car through the air at over 110kph will kill your economy regardless of gear ratio.

1. I don't think any EJ brakes will fit behind 14"

2. Yes there are 15" wheels on SF Foz

3. No abs base model SF Foz

4. No

5. Yes all foresters are 4.11 or 4.44 to the best of my knowledge. I don't think they are easy to fit in your front diff.

6. SG forester comes with rear LSD standard in XS and XT. I'm not sure about the X.

revmax · Post by **revmax** » Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:01 pm

Did he cosider that a Brumby Can take a payload.
If the STD brakes were kept on the Brumby and fitting say an NA EJ20.
For round figures lets say the EJ20 is 50KG heavier than the EA81. Would it be allowed to use the STD brakes and just reduce the payload by 50KG.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:44 am

thinking along lines of MY Brumby with L discs in rear, retain the MY front brakes and reason that vehicle is lighter than the donor vehicle, L Series or EJ thing, it is lighter and will cope (and satisfy engineer) with the std front brakes.

A Brumby has a payload similar to any MY sedan or wagon don't it just that more of the sedan and wagons payloads come in sacks of skin.
Ive been in an EJ'd Brumby with std brakes,rims and tyres all around and it had no trouble stopping, despite its claimed 300kW @ 16psi !!

2nd Hand Yank · Post by **2nd Hand Yank** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:23 am

taza wrote:For most of your questions a first gen Foz or 2nd Gen lib fit perfectly. 15" rims, no ABS(base models only), EJ20 or 22, bigger brakes(than your L), etc...

Why not just buy a wrecked car, then you have everything you need for a conversion.

I find with my 4.11 gearing that doing 130-140km/hr I'm sitting on almost 4000rpm, my economy is then thrown out the window and I get about 10-11l per 100km. Although at 110 I'm still not happy with it as it's doing 3200rpm, however at 100 when I'm just below 3000rpm I can get 6-8l per 100km on average.

Thanks mate

A good possibility...

My car never gets better than 10.15L/100km at any speed or rpm, even in the finest state of tuning.

(except when the engine was running hot from a leaking cooling system; 9.1L/100km?

)

My car is also probably near 4000rpm if I wanted to go 130 km/h, even with my oversized tyres.
It almost always gets the same fuel economy regardless of city or highway driving... 10.5-10.8 L/100km.
Although right now it might be worse than that as it's not in the finest state of tuning;
hard starting atm even with a new battery. (dirty plugs?)

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:38 pm

Seriously is this how easy it is to engineer north of the boarder?? I'd be saving yesterday if this was the case - what is the cost involved? It's all good unit it comes to opening the wallet!

Down here, the last I checked, we can't get the larger tyres engineered and no one will touch a lift kit over 2 inches - and a 2 inch kit is legal without engineering. I doubt I could get it engineered in NSW and have it crossed over to vic either.

Bloody vic, sooooooooooooooo much un-fun friggin' red tape

As for some of your questions:

4.11 ratio diffs could fit in your EA casings, but you'd have to do the crown wheel shave trick to fit the low range in, you might also need to shave some of the ribbing inside the case (not 100% on this). But if you were going EJ you might as well mod a box to suit while you're at it!

4.560943 whatever that ratio was you mentioned - don't exist for subarus. 4.44 or taller from there!

And any of your questions about brakes and the 5 stud conversion (really the bigger brake conversion) can be found on the cross breed website for the parts required to swap.

Cheers

Bennie

2nd Hand Yank · Post by **2nd Hand Yank** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:53 am

El_Freddo wrote:Seriously is this how easy it is to engineer north of the boarder?? I'd be saving yesterday if this was the case - what is the cost involved? It's all good unit it comes to opening the wallet!

Down here, the last I checked, we can't get the larger tyres engineered and no one will touch a lift kit over 2 inches - and a 2 inch kit is legal without engineering. I doubt I could get it engineered in NSW and have it crossed over to vic either.

Bloody vic, sooooooooooooooo much un-fun friggin' red tape

I'm unsure if a taller lift kit can be engineered here, but the bloke I saw had no issues at all with my 2" lift, which I do need a cert as it has a body lift, and I'm assuming I could go taller. I will ask him when I come back for my appointment.

Even if you put in bigger brakes they won't let you have bigger tyres?

As for some of your questions:

4.11 ratio diffs could fit in your EA casings, but you'd have to do the crown wheel shave trick to fit the low range in, you might also need to shave some of the ribbing inside the case (not 100% on this). But if you were going EJ you might as well mod a box to suit while you're at it!

4.560943 whatever that ratio was you mentioned - don't exist for subarus. 4.44 or taller from there!

And any of your questions about brakes and the 5 stud conversion (really the bigger brake conversion) can be found on the cross breed website for the parts required to swap.

Cheers

Bennie

Mod a box?
Do you mean take an EJ transmission and swap in my L Series Lo Range?
That actually sounds like an easier fit... and I could swap final drive ratios more easily.

4:56:1? I must have been confusing it with GM (Chevrolet) cars and trucks because I used to be into (very) old cars.

As so cross breed has info on a 5 stud conversion? Cheers.

I don't really want 15" or bigger diameter,
was hoping for a meaty 14" for more tyre flex aired down,
but 15" isn't bad plus it's easy to find tyres for that rim.

2nd Hand Yank · Post by **2nd Hand Yank** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:56 am

revmax wrote:Did he cosider that a Brumby Can take a payload.
If the STD brakes were kept on the Brumby and fitting say an NA EJ20.
For round figures lets say the EJ20 is 50KG heavier than the EA81. Would it be allowed to use the STD brakes and just reduce the payload by 50KG.

^^ Now you have me wondering about different engine weights. Maybe I would prefer a EJ20 over an EJ22 now.

B00sting · Post by **B00sting** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:44 am

Pretty much all these questions can only be answered by an engineer. And even then you may get different answers depending on which engineer you use.

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:19 pm

2nd Hand Yank wrote:Mod a box?
Do you mean take an EJ transmission and swap in my L Series Lo Range?
That actually sounds like an easier fit... and I could swap final drive ratios more easily.

Yep that's exactly what I'm saying - or just get a 2L foz box.

2nd Hand Yank wrote:^^ Now you have me wondering about different engine weights. Maybe I would prefer a EJ20 over an EJ22 now.

I doubt there would be much of a difference in weight to worry about between the EJ capacities if there was any at all. The weight difference will come in the form of the EA vs the EJ...

B00sting wrote:Pretty much all these questions can only be answered by an engineer. And even then you may get different answers depending on which engineer you use.

That is so true!

Cheers

Bennie

Cliff R · Post by **Cliff R** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:19 am

2nd Hand Yank wrote:I'm unsure if a taller lift kit can be engineered here, but the bloke I saw had no issues at all with my 2" lift, which I do need a cert as it has a body lift, and I'm assuming I could go taller. I will ask him when I come back for my appointment.

Wondering if you ended up with an answer to approving a higher kit than a 2" in NSW.