New to forum - Liberty/Outback towing questions

eatpeople04 · Post by **eatpeople04** » Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:35 am

Hi all,

Firstly I've been doing a bit of reading over the last couple of days on this forum, can I say well done on having so many informed and helpful members around!

I'm looking at a new car to suit the arrival of my first-born in a few weeks. For many reasons (which I'll elaborate below if anyone is interested) it seems the best suited vehicle for me is a Liberty wagon.

My question for the experts is regarding towing. We have a boat that I'm happy to tow behind my wife's car (Peugeot 307 wagon, rated to 1500kg braked) so that is the benchmark for my next car.

At the moment the best candidate is a gen3 Outback H6 because it seems to be rated to 1600kg towing and they are about right with the budget. So what is the difference between the 3.0l Outback, 2.5l Outback (1400kg) and 2.5l Liberty (1200kg) that allows the H6 to tow so much more (apart from the engine)? Are there any suspension upgrades between the 3.0l and 2.5l Outbacks? And is the Liberty suspension that much weaker again?

Obviously if the budget will stretch I'd love a gen4 Liberty but they are still a bit pricey unfortunately.

Thanks for reading guys, I look forward to your responses.

(Reasons for choosing Liberty)

- I'd like a wagon (to fit a full sized digital piano in)
- I want a medium sized car (rather than a Falcon or Commodore)
- I want a car that drives the rear wheels (we've had trouble with the FWD Peugeot pulling the boat up dirt roads)
- I need to tow a boat
- I'd prefer a manual
- I'd prefer not to have an "SUV"

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:37 am

Hi and Welcome eatpeople04

Firstly thanks for your kind words and hope you get a Subaru and continue to get involved

I would like to say you have chosen what I consider the best car manufacturer on the market for safety and reliability. Also I can tell you the H6 is one of the nicest cars I've owned. However the Gen3 H6 from memory only comes out in an auto but these aren't your average autos, they are fully electronic with lock up convertor and are semi-manual if needed. I believe the extra towing capacity is due to larger braking capacity. You'll need to remember that mostly all new Subarus are AWD which does make them a lot safer car but also their fuel economy is higher then other cars in the same category.

All the best in you hunt for the perfect car and let us know how it turns out.

Cheers,
Paul

eatpeople04 · Post by **eatpeople04** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:25 am

Hi Paul, thanks for the welcome!

I'm very happy with the choice of Subaru having admired them from afar for a while. (My brother has a Forester XT and two of my friends have a gen4 liberty and outback respectively)

I had made peace with the auto in the H6 model, though if I end up with 2.5l car I'll be looking for a manual.

I hadn't thought of the brakes as an issue but that makes a lot of sense. I will have to do more research I guess. Is there a simple (and cost effective...) way of uprating the tow capacity of a Liberty (gen3) wagon?

Thanks again,

Daniel

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:00 am

Watch out - you can get hooked and end up with two Subies (or more

) One for the newborn and another oldie to share with them as they grow up - father/ child bonding project Brumby

I have heard that the 2.5 in whatever can deliver good economy - depending on how you drive, drive it hard and economy is bitten. have heard the H6 delivers great highway economy down to 7.5 litre per 100

Consider a turbo version ? I have been doing a bit of towing of 250kg trailer with up to just another hundred kilo extra on board. I have said i preferred towing with my LPG EA81 1800cc 84 - 91 Brumby's than my turbo LPG EA82 1800cc L Series sedan '85. Now retract that after doing many km with trailer in tow, sorted pipe popping issues under 10 psi boost, with the engine at its best 2500 to 3500 rpm working nicely. The economy of turbo is really not any different to non turbo.

A turbo liberty ?

eatpeople04 · Post by **eatpeople04** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:14 am

Hi Steptoe,

The engine power is not so much what I'm worried about when it comes to towing, the 115kw from the 2.5l. Our Peugeot diesel tows fine with only 100kw (albeit 320nm) and Dad used to pull massive amounts of crap with his old Peugeot wagons that had much less than that.

The main issue is whether the suspension, towbar mounts and (as Paul said) brakes can handle the weight.

Having said that a turbo would be a lot more fun, but given SWMBO is (grudgingly) letting me keep my hail-damaged hot hatch for fun I doubt I would get away with trying to pull this one over her eyes!

niterida · Post by **niterida** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:18 am

eatpeople04 wrote:Hi Paul, thanks for the welcome!

I'm very happy with the choice of Subaru having admired them from afar for a while. (My brother has a Forester XT and two of my friends have a gen4 liberty and outback respectively)

I had made peace with the auto in the H6 model, though if I end up with 2.5l car I'll be looking for a manual.

I hadn't thought of the brakes as an issue but that makes a lot of sense. I will have to do more research I guess. Is there a simple (and cost effective...) way of uprating the tow capacity of a Liberty (gen3) wagon?

Thanks again,

Daniel

Definitely go for the H6 for towing and just generally a nicer car than the 2.5. I have a 2.5 Outback and I have towed a car trailer with it - probably about 1500kg (maybe a little bit more

) but it didn't like doing it !!

As for uprating towing capacity - forget it - I asked my engineer about this and he just said its not impossible but would cost thousands of dollars in testing, reports etc. My understanding is that there is no specific thing that relates to the towing capacity - it is simply whatever the manufacturer states, therefore there are no guidelines on what you have to change to upgrade the rating. The only thing you can do is add factory parts - like stiffer suspsension and bigger brakes - to match the factories uprated capacity. So you may be able to add the bigger H6 brakes and get that extra 100kg or so - probably not a bad option for peace of mind even if you don't get it re-engineered. Or better still go for the 4 pot front calipers from a WRX - can pick them up for about $200, plus a bigger set of discs for about $150 and they bolt straight on.

Sorry I didn't check where you are - but I will have a Gen 3 Outback up for sale in WA in a few weeks - going cheap because it doesn't look pretty but goes good (or will when I fix the head gasket)

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:48 am

Yeah go the h6. It will give you that extra oomhp for pulling up hills. I regret not getting the 6 myself.

Sent from my new touchy phone thingy

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:25 pm

No one has mentioned weight of the boat either ???? And there is sort of a feel to what you pull with what in terms of how heavy each end is - still have visions of when an old, say 74 Maz 626 wagon was coming downhill in an 80 zone at me, trailer loaded up with pine logs out of the forest - trailer started to swagger and bounce and next minute it ripped th whole set up of car & trailer around in a slow motion 180 degree turn. If I nearly shat my pants , can't imagine the drivers' !

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:14 am

Hey Daniel, I'd go and take both models for a test drive and get a good feel for what you like. Personally I like manual cars too, so if you could find some extra $$ or put it on HP, then go for the Gen4 H6 with a manual.

I did a search on Carsales and this looks nice...
http://www.carsales.com.au/private/deta ... 2&__N=1622

But try search for Subaru, Wagon, Manual and 3000cc Engine. You'll see a few there to choise from.

Davidov · Post by **Davidov** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:51 pm

I'd definately go the H6. Ive towed ~1500kg with my 2.5 manual and with that much weight the 2.5 reeeally struggles. Taking off is a big mission. Any sort of hill or slope and your gone.

Id go Gen4 H6 Outback, the nicest car subaru has ever made by a long shot IMO.
I'd also choose an Outback over a lib just because of the extra clearance which is very nice just for curbing it or even light offroading etc.

eatpeople04 · Post by **eatpeople04** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:53 pm

Hi guys, thanks for the great input.

You've convinced me that the H6 is the way to go, will be looking at some over this weekend (and with any luck buy one).

To all those suggesting a gen4 car, I'd really love to but unfortunatley they just aren't cheap enough yet

Niterida - I'm in Victoria, so although the trip home would either prove you sold me a great car or break it, probably a bit much trouble for me ;-D

Steptoe - I'm not 100% sure on the weight of the boat, but I'm working off our existing tow car (Pug 307) as a benchmark, which is rated to 1500kg. The boat trailer itself is really stable, always been a dream to tow. (BTW it's only a 16' clinker ski boat, not a massive modern wake boat or anything)

Thanks again guys, I'll let you know how I go

scriptchip · Post by **scriptchip** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:55 pm

even with a smaller engine liberty or outback they are fine to tow, i used my mums 2000 outback 2.5l to tow my ute 1100kgs and the trailer 450kgs plus a engine and extras in the tray. it towed fine, only thing i noticed was the fuel consumption. ive driven it when towing and if the front wheels slip the rear wheels kick in straight away.
watch this forester against its rival cars (note the awd system is in all modern subarus)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRniF4JQN2U

eatpeople04 · Post by **eatpeople04** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:59 pm

Hello again.

Scriptchip - very interesting video. Although none of the other cars were on my radar, it does make me feel better about my choice.

The exciting news is I have put a deposit on an '01 Outback H6 last night and will hopefully be picking it up later this week (once the current/previous owner sorts the RWC etc).

Thanks again for your input everybody, and I'm sure I'll be dipping my foot into the fountain of knowledge again quite soon!

Cheers,

Daniel

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:59 am

That DVD should be on display in all dealerships! So many people get caught by the front wheel drive most times systems. A mate bought a non Subie that was thought to be 4WD by previous adventurer who started a known river crossing that was a little deeper after rainfall and by the time they realised trouble was afoot, the fronts scrabbling for traction THEN the rears cut in and was all over - sucked in some water and bent a con rod and insurance paid for this stupidity !! Even if it was real 4WD would not have survived - justy got them further into trouble. And only just yesterday, me sitting at an intersection with my 4WD lever up

, the 'AWD' SUV in front slithered away off the line - I thought it was all wheel drive ??

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:37 pm

Congrats on buying a H6 Daniel. We will need pics as soon as you get it

taza · Post by **taza** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:04 pm

Congrats mate. Can't wait to see some pics.

I towed 2 tonnes with a mates 03 (gen 3) outback 2.5l manual. I had my broken forester on a trailer behind it. Towed it surprisingly easy but it used 1/4 of a tank in 32km!!
The 2.0l on the other hand is a POS and useless in all situations so good thing you weren't looking at one of them!