Brumby/Ea81 on Gas?

Backyard_Brumby · Post by **Backyard_Brumby** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:27 pm

My apologies if it has already been covered, (couldn't find it after search).

Has anyone heard or done a gas conversion on a brumby/ea81 motor?

With the big project at the moment it is probably out of the mods list for the moment but I would be interested if it is possible? I will be doing a lot of k's in the coming years and can only imagine how cheap the little 4 banger would be on gas.

Any info appreciated as always

Cheers James

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:34 pm

It can be done, I've seen them around - gas tank against the cab wall. Never seen one for sale, there's probably a reason for that!

Cheers

Bennie

Backyard_Brumby · Post by **Backyard_Brumby** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:53 pm

El_Freddo wrote:It can be done, I've seen them around - gas tank against the cab wall.

That is what I was thinking, on mine the far back of the tray isn't very usable due to the high sides making it hard to reach into. My only concern was whether you needed to change the carby at all. which would not be an option seeing as I have just put the new webber on

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:59 pm

Backyard_Brumby wrote:My only concern was whether you needed to change the carby at all. which would not be an option seeing as I have just put the new webber on

Nah, the real primitive systems simply drill a hole in the side of the carb, tap it and plumb in a piece of pipe that's got a bolt in it to adjust the mixture. The hole has to be made above the butterfly. I've also seen a "gas ring" that looks a bit like an inverted gas cooker ring that sits on the top of the carbie but below the air filter.

And the bolt used to adjust the mixture is pretty effective too, I used to wind mine out a turn or two over summer when I had a job and my old torana on gas, it'd really move after this little mod!

Cheers

Bennie

revmax · Post by **revmax** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:10 pm

one got sold here in Coffs just this week, it was on ebay, went for around $1500 unregistered.

NachaLuva · Post by **NachaLuva** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:50 pm

El_Freddo wrote:Nah, the real primitive systems simply drill a hole in the side of the carb, tap it and plumb in a piece of pipe that's got a bolt in it to adjust the mixture. The hole has to be made above the butterfly. I've also seen a "gas ring" that looks a bit like an inverted gas cooker ring that sits on the top of the carbie but below the air filter.

And the bolt used to adjust the mixture is pretty effective too, I used to wind mine out a turn or two over summer when I had a job and my old torana on gas, it'd really move after this little mod!

Cheers

Bennie

Haha yep thats pretty basic lol.

AFAIK, you dont touch the existing carby, the gas "carby" goes before your Webber.

I'd do a call around, find out who has RECENTLY done a LPG conversion on a carby car. Modern LPG systems have their own basic ECU that, i think, use the O2 sensor to adjust the mixture. This is why you need to find someone who has done a recent conversion on a carbied engine.

Also, there are many backyarders & recent starters in the LPG business. Make sure you get someone who has specialised in LPG conversions for at least a decade not a garage who does em on the side, then go in there & let them look at your engine & discuss it from there.

As far as Subies on gas go, i havent heard of any probs. Certainly for many years Commodores on gas were sure to do head gaskets on a regular basis. I guess the main prob for your ea81 would be either head gaskets or burnt valves.

Don't be discouraged though, with a bit of research I'm certain you'll be able to find someone to do a good job. Then you'll chuckle everytime you hear us whinging bout the price of petrol as it hits $2/L, then $3/L, then...

PS: My mum just bought a Weber...its sitting on the back porch waiting to be fired up for the next BBQ

:roll:

NachaLuva · Post by **NachaLuva** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:53 pm

Also, check out the government rebate. When i did my Falcon i got $2000 back so it only cost me $1000 out of pocket. I think the rebate now is $1000 so check it out

Post by **TOONGA** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:11 pm

Mr Steptoe would be the man to talk to, apparently he has a gas brumby.

TOONGA

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:23 pm

TOONGA wrote:Mr Steptoe would be the man to talk to, apparently he has a gas brumby.

TOONGA

+1, why isn't he in here yet?

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:32 pm

Yeah, one or two

A coupla ways to go about it under the bonnet.

My first involved a bit of makin' this and that all fit to together, so was the second one come to think of it.

I was stubborn in keeping with the old simple converter complex mixer of IMPCO - 125 mixer, J or Cobra converter for what I knew and respected.

Picture a VN Commodore air filter box where the Brumby jack and charcoal canister was. This thenfed a filtered air through a steering rack boot for its flex across to the EA81. Other end of the boot fitted my 125 mixer bell housing. The mixer mounted to the AC bracket.

I made a box to fit atop my twins out of 100x 50 shs tube . A downward facing exhaust pipe emtered the radiator side in the middle and connected to the out end of the mixer.

Dedicated LPG is my thing. 80lkitre useable tank from a Ford Courier sits just behind me in the tray.

My next under bonnet conversion still hassles me as I used a Mitsu Lancer throttle efi throttle body directly adapted to the manifold with the impco 125 mixer and air filter above that - a tight squeeze.

Most conversion dudes will want to fit Landi Renzo or the like complex converter with simple mixer ring - looks just like a bbq gas ring, shove it between carb and air filter but they don't quite fit under the bonnet of a standard MY.

If you are prepared to cobble up an adapter to fit air tight on the carb and connect in a simple mixer ring in the airstream closer to another air filter set up with complex converter - I feel would now be the best way to go.

My tired old EA81 with 480,000km would do 540 to 570 km on 70 litres.

My latest EA81 proper rebuild with a cam

gave me 517km on 60.22 litres last fill - about $32 with the 8 cent discount ~ 56 cpl.

71 litre useable in this tank, so maybe get to 600km and push !! if no refill before

All up done about 230,000 LPG km in EA81 and EA82T

Once done, you won't want to sell it !! About $1250 Federal rebate now, so long as not business, car is already registered in your name

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:41 pm

showthread.php?t=16195&highlight=Brumby

is one by smiles

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:44 pm

and another (all from going adavanced search, any date, posts by smiles, Brumby LPG in search words - my memory helped me here)

showthread.php?t=16000&highlight=Brumby

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:58 pm

No need for the ECU style system as they are controlled by O2 sensor, as Brumby does not use O2 sensor for emissions you no need to use so is open loop /fresh air approach - which almost eliminates backfires.

Actually, with the fresh air non ECU O2 sensor controlled I have only had one (BigF) backfire due to electronic ignition earth lead a little loose - now use two earth leads on a lot of things

Backfire with turbo compressing a volatile mix is another story

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:49 pm

I've had many cars on LPG. Steptoe's experience wins hands down though.

Steptoe- have you ever had a dizzy recalibrated for the LPG? or did you advance it a little?

This is what I found on 4 cylinder LPG conversions, they being more critical when it comes to ignition advance.

Straight dedicated LPG is the go, prividing you always have LPG available wherever you plan to go. No carbie at all. But it isnt really practical for range. The advantage is economy- and no needle/seat problems (sticking).

Had a 350 Chev in a series 3 Jaguar with dedicated LPG one throat. the twin throat version would have flown.

Also had a Peugeot 505 feul injected converted on dual fuel. Had that ring Bennie was talking about mounted before the intake assembly.

I dont want to sound negative but engine cooling can be an issue with some engines especially if it isnt tuned well in the beginning. Melbourne had a mob called Gas Research in Dandenong. They specialise in it and it has already been covered above about seeking out real experts. I've smelled many a LPG car following it- smelling that unburned gas because it is inefficient. Do it once and do it correctly- it will pay for itself.

I did 300,000kms in my Peugeot on LPG. saved around $25 a tank or -$15,000 over 6 years minus conversion costs. It did run hot but it depends on the design. European cars dont have good cooling systems for oz in my view. But my idea was that if the engine blew up I'd be easily able to afford another. It didnt and I got 500,000kms out of it in total. A friend bought it, took the head off and told me the engine looked perfect, bore and valves. I think they were quality engines the Peugeot's.

You will likely use a little oil. Steptoe might confirm/deny this. But every conversion I had had more oil consumption.

Alloy engines run better on LPG. I found that the oil injection system you could buy once wasnt worth the expense. Supposedly it saved burning out your valves and kept your head/s cooler. My friend also had a 505 like mine on gas and didnt bother with the system and it survived well.

Ideally I'd obtain another engine in good nick. Replace the valves seats with hardened ones and whatever a LPG expert recommends. Check out the dizzy for more ideal advance if needed. Then transplant. Financially it would be a killing. Some people couldnt get the advantages. Especially those that never drove long distances. I drove from Yea (Vic) to Ivanhoe- 90 minutes one way. To give others a perspective I used to say "I can take my wife out for a dinner for two every night from what I saved."

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:12 pm

Mate, I paid a so called well respected , well established dyno house to recurve a dizzy to suit my higher compression. The invoice came marked COMPRESSION TOO HIGH FOR STREET USE , the points were not to spec and the reason it was pinging its head off on the dyno was that they interpreted the six cylinders timing marks the same as the V8 giving me about 8 degrees more than spec !!

That was 1985 and never forgot the pr1cks!.

OK , so maybe 230 psi in all six pots was good:) , I reset the points, the timing to factory spec, fudged around with dizzy springs and it was all great.

Moral of that story was - learn more and do it meself !

So yeah, I do my own dizzies and braze up the slots of the mechanical advance and file the braze down to get max of 28 degrees total advance, with the initial wound up a few more degrees than std, other than the turbo EA82, I have it at 16 instead of 20 (wound the boost up a smidge

) and let the knock sensor do its boost retard job.

Hardened valve seats are already in alloy heads. I have been a big fan of upper cylinder lube on cast iron heads but got ripped off severely by now bought out lubricant distributor on 20 litres of 2 stroke oil posing as upper cylinder - carboned up my head twice before I worked out the gip

In all honesty EA81#2 dizzy never got the treatment due to internal bits different - no spares. Just a no vacuum advance state, takes a bit to get going until 3rd gear up to 110 and top pulls well 80 to 120

I run colder thermostats and use no extra oik - that's a Pug thing

21 years since Saddam dropped his bomb - same day I cut over to LPG !

smiles · Post by **smiles** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:36 pm

My Brumby is almost up to 260 000 kms and going well on LPG for a year and a half now. Consistently gets 520kms per 62 Litres. The only hassle I have had is the mixer ring raising the height of the air cleaner so it hits the underside of the bonnet, so watch out for that one..

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:53 am

I was a bit peeved of your economy as mine was 540 km on 70 litres. New ute, new EA81 with turbo/LPG specific cam 20/60 (hooted on petrol too!) now returning 540 km indicated (add 5% for real km) on 60 litres.

18 months ago ? eh ? Time flies, glad you are happy smiles

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:06 am

I like to explore all possibilities. For example if it was at all possible to install a LPG tank on a trike then in 15 year time when I found out that, I'd be cheesed off because of all the fuel savings I could have had.

So when I ordered my tweety 4 years ago I looked into it. Scuba tanks under the ladders bars just before the rear wheels (not enough clearance), small standard tanks considered (smallest then was 30cm- too big) and finally towing a tank. The ldea was to have a LPG tank on the drawbar of the caravan with a gas line to the trike with auto shut off if the trike and van parted.

Vicroads said in a loud voice NO!!

So settled for my business cars to be economical diesel i30 etc and hang the expense when having fun.

But I did run a Peugeot 505 auto on LPG for many years. it got 450kms to 55 litres. After many kms my mate bought the car and took the cylinder ehad off for inspection. The bores still had the honing marks on, the valves were perfect and he just gave the valves a lap in replaced the head gasket and had a great spare engine for his 505. Good engine builders Peugeot. Except for cooling in oz conditions...they get hot on LPG.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:37 am

A mate had a Falcon tank in the back of his Festiva but wanted more storage room - ended up with one of those little tanks now used with Diesel/gas and it's tiny !! 8 or 10 " diameter, holds about 18 litres LPG

Pugs and their dish welch plugs - shudder