Which dual core(s) will fit in a 93 L Series?

2nd Hand Yank · Post by **2nd Hand Yank** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:20 am

I have a friend who manages a radiator & air-con shop in Bunbury.
He himself also has done a lot of beach driving, including pulling trailers through sand.
He recommended a dual core, but when he did a search, all he found was a single-core replacement.
I think I have the original radiator; fins are pretty knackered.

He told me if I can find a dual-core that will fit, he can pick it up and give me a deal.

He also recommended running 2 thermostats:

*160 F in summer
*190 F in winter

Post by **TOONGA** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:59 am

Dual core radiators for the "L" series are normally custom made (argue now people:) )

Ask this guy what it would cost to get one made up.

TOONGA

2nd Hand Yank · Post by **2nd Hand Yank** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 12:08 pm

thanks.

I'll ask if they actually make radiators. I know they install and service them.

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 12:09 pm

There are dual core ones available in the US, as these were fitted to turbo auto L series after 1987 (Series II L series) But because Australia never had a turbo after 1987, our radiator parts books dont have em.

I looked at gettin one from the US, but none of the suppliers wanted to ship to Aus.

Venom · Post by **Venom** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:17 pm

I was reading some USMB threads and they were saying that all the US radiators for the L Series have reverted to single core, but the catalogues still list it as dual core. There were a few people complained about ordering duals and getting a single.

woody.t · Post by **woody.t** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:25 pm

i have a custom dual core in my garage with ej end tanks but that was a custom job as i believe all dual cores for l-series will have to be

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:54 pm

Paul from Subareck in Adelaide had some made a few years back when I believe he was rallying an RX L Series .
They are based on whichever of the std composite L series rad tanks is the wide one and the other end is a modded brass MY tank . The cores were made here and mine still has the tag with its part number soldered to it . Out of town ATM but will check tomorrow .
The std top and bottom steel straps are fitted so that it fits in like the std single core POS .
They do make a noticable difference and my car runs fine with just it and the mechanical/viscous hub fan .

The ultimate solution is to have a one off aluminium welded one made but it wouldn't be a budget exercise .
I keep suggesting full flow oil coolers but no one seems interested . Oil runs at higher temps than coolant so the temp differential between oil and air is greater meaning good heat transfer ability . Oil also contacts all the moving parts where water only sees the water pump .

A .

BTW I think thermostats in the 170 and 180F are better for an EA82 , I think 190 is a bit high and 160 a bit low .
Tridon do big valve thermostats that fit EA82s and somewhere in here I posted their part numbers for the 170 and 180F ones .

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:38 pm

Yeah, no listing from Tridon for 160F, 170F is the lowest they go. Maybe, just maybe , adding a Tweety inspired motorbike radiator or an old heater core as an extra may help. One day I might be tempted to try the old hook up the AC condensor into the loop trick and run coolant through it instead of refrigerant

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:31 am

2nd Hand Yank wrote:I have a friend who manages a radiator & air-con shop in Bunbury.
He himself also has done a lot of beach driving, including pulling trailers through sand.
He recommended a dual core, but when he did a search, all he found was a single-core replacement.
I think I have the original radiator; fins are pretty knackered.

He told me if I can find a dual-core that will fit, he can pick it up and give me a deal.

He also recommended running 2 thermostats:

*160 F in summer
*190 F in winter

My thoughts would be just buy a single core aluminum aftermarket one, which are identical to the factory ones and the best bit, they are available off the shelf. IMO these are better cooling than a dual core copper one.

As for the thermostat, just buy the 160degF one and don't bother changing and use good quality anti-freeze/anti-boil coolant, IMO stick with Subaru coolant but there are other good ones out there.

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:55 am

I actually bought a Jap Koyo ally radiator and nope Pauls dual core one works better . The single core ones use really thin cores and if anything the tubes are a bit big .

If you plumb anything into the heater hoses it bypasses the thermostat so could increase warm up times .

An issue with lower temp thermostats is that they don't help if a cooling system is inadequate , it just takes longer to overheat because the opening into the inadequate cooling system opens sooner .
I found the larger valve type thermostats keep the water temp more stable but again if the cooling system is inadequate ...

A .

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:13 pm

discopotato03 wrote:I actually bought a Jap Koyo ally radiator and nope Pauls dual core one works better . The single core ones use really thin cores and if anything the tubes are a bit big .

If you plumb anything into the heater hoses it bypasses the thermostat so could increase warm up times .

An issue with lower temp thermostats is that they don't help if a cooling system is inadequate , it just takes longer to overheat because the opening into the inadequate cooling system opens sooner .
I found the larger valve type thermostats keep the water temp more stable but again if the cooling system is inadequate ...

A .

Weird cause I've had both too and found the aluminum one to get rid of heat a lot faster. Maybe there is a differences in the brands??

I have and also use twin core in some of my cars but they are the older models. I do like the fact that they are easier to service.

I've found larger valve thermostats increase water flow too much and in turn don't allow the water to stay in the rad long enough to cool down, pretty much the reason it makes it worse when you remove them altogther. I find that is the case when the rad is partially blocked. Best to clean radiators at least once every 2 years (even if using good coolant) because it's usually the biggest killer of all engine fails.

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:15 pm

Sorry.. not trying to start a war, just interesting to hear others opinions.

And sorry Matt for highjacking

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:39 pm

RSR 555 wrote:My thoughts would be just buy a single core aluminum aftermarket one, which are identical to the factory ones and the best bit, they are available off the shelf.

I tend to agree. But must be used with the belt driven fan.

I had overheating issues with my EA82T with a brand new off the shelf radiator, but it was because I was using a supercheap auto electric fan in place of the mechanical one.

Threw it in the bin and put the mechanical belt driven one and never had a heating problem again.

Post by **Alex** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:43 pm

the shrouds are also bloody important for use with the stock clutch fans.

alex

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:02 pm

Alex wrote:the shrouds are also bloody important for use with the stock clutch fans.

Yeah agreed on this one. Although if you've got an MY they seemed to not have the shroud on the mechanical fan... dunno why.

Also the electric thermo fans that have a shroud that covers a larger area than just the fan blade circumference do a better job than those thermo fans that ONLY have a shroud for the blade area - check out factory thermo fans and you'll understand what I mean.

Cheers

Bennie

2nd Hand Yank · Post by **2nd Hand Yank** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:48 am

Aluminium has superior heat-conductivity to most metals. It's why welding it is such a pain. Plus the top surface oxidizes rapidly; protecting the metal below like galvanizing, but making it nasty to weld.

A new single core does sound like a good idea.

I have no idea what the temperature is on my thermostat.
I asked when I bought it and they told me "...the book only lists one thermostat..."
So I didn't have a range to choose from.
I was just guessing it's 190 F or 180 F as the operating temp position
(1/3 off cold) on the H/C gauge looks like what I'm familiar with seeing on Canadian cars.

Didn't someone mention an oil cooler?

If the oil is much hotter than coolant normally,
maybe that idea is worth re-hashing.

I have space in front of my A/C condensor.
All I'd need is a way to pump it.
I was thinking an aux oil cooler might be easier to do than a custom dual-core.

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:16 am

IMO.. oil coolers are great if you're in extreme heats but down here you'll be fine. I personally would waste your $$ because the benifit wouldn't be noticed. My thoughts would be use GOOD quality oil and change more often. Also keeping the rad clean will oil from getting to hot too. It shouldn't matter where you are in the world, the thermostat will thermostatically control the water flow, thus keeping the engine at the correct temp.

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:59 pm

RSR the issue I believe is that the L Series doesn't exactly have much reserve cooling capacity because their nose is low which limits the height of the radiator . Also once you have all the optional factory fruit ie Pwr steer/AC/EFI/turbo diff lock actuator the air flow through the engine bay is not exactly grouse . The turbo versions make more power and with this comes extra heat to have to cope with .
Also EA82s are like a block of flats on its side . There is a lot of area of belt covers and they aren't that far behind the core which is bad for airflow .

The L series radiator as I said is marginal in frontal area and the core is quite thin even for a single row one . Being rectangular limits the diameter the mechanical fan can be and having horizontal tubes is a packaging compromise . In any cooling matrix more tubes in preference to longer ones is preferable .

Now all else being equal aluminium is better for radiator cores - even though copper is a better conductor . What lets copper down is that the gills are "glued" to the tubes with solder and solder having a high lead content is a poor conductor . The big issues with the old style rads is the weight and disposal probs .

It is too simplistic to say that all ally rads are better than their copper/brass cousins because you can have good and bad construction priorities in either .
IMO had the single row aluminium one been the full with of at least the wide tank with an adequate number of tubes and gills it would be very hard to beat .
My experience has been that the twin copper cored rad works better than a brand new single row aluminium one - I've tried both . When you can't go taller or wider you have to go deeper to gain more surface area .

Thermostats . I'm not sure how well known it is but I'm certain MPFI turbo Vortexes came std with larger valve thermostats than Ls did and every Spider manifold I opened up had a very OE looking large valve thermostat in it . I figure the factory has millions to spend in R and D and they never spend a single cent on components if they don't absolutely have to . They must have their reasons and I'm just glad Tridon make something that does the same job . Mine is a turbo XT4 Spider engine BTW .

Oil coolers are never over the top on any turbocharged petrol engine . The lack of one is a bean counters decision not an engineers one . The best ones have a thermovalve system so the cooler is bypassed up to a certain temperature then a shuttle valve opens to progressively increase what the cooler gets with temperature . My Evo 6 has this and its supposed to open or regulate at 100C so the oil never runs cold .

Anyway your calls , AFAIK the Rally RX Turbos all had multi core radiators and oil coolers and the best local legal ones put out 190 non intercooled horsepower .

A .

MTB92 · Post by **MTB92** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:36 pm

RSR mentioned a stock aluminium rad might be just as useful for enhanced cooling. can anyone shed some light on whether something like this would be appropriate for either gaining some extra cooling or putting behind an ej.

http://www.nationwideautoparts.com.au/o ... 228&SUBARU L SERIES WAGON RADIATOR

most of the others L series rads i have seen are copper/brass.

Robbie

Post by **TOONGA** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:28 pm

same radiator is on ebay for $183.82 cents

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SUBARU-L-SER ... 35b6fc2efe

delivered.

it is a single core like the nationwide auto parts one.

Aluminium is a great conductor of electricity so it is a great thermal conductor as well.

there are many schools of thought on which metal makes the best heat exchanger, 9 time out of 10 it comes down to the cost of the metal used.

tungsten, molybdenum, iridium, platinum, palladium, gold, silver, aluminium, tin, copper, brass, zinc, tin, lead and quite a few other metals are great thermal conductors.

care for a 24 k gold radiator? that would move some serious heat. funnily enough a silver radiator would work better as it has a better thermal conductivity rate than gold.

aluminium, copper and brass are around the same thermal point (brass is a copper alloy) aluminium is lighter than brass or copper and is used more because of this. As well with the soaring price of copper it makes sense to use a metal that's currently less than a dollar a kilo.

I like copper and brass radiators, mostly because I can solder one up if it springs a leak. Plastic end tanks worry me hence my questions in the vortex radiator thread this morning.

for some light reading on the subject of thermal conductivity.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb ... rcond.html

TOONGA