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Who's handy with an arc welder? I'm not.

Even on what should be a dead simple weld, I still get little inclusions:



The picture of the weld isn't very clear, but there is a little spot of slag trapped in the middle. You can see the corresponding hole in the middle of the slag that chipped off. Inclusions usually seem to occur, as in this case, where I've pull the electrode away to finish the weld.

That's a butt join done lying flat on the steel surface of the workbench. Both pieces are 3mm mild. Using 2.5mm CIG Satincraft 13 electrodes in a little CIG welder, running at just under 100A. I try to keep the tip of the electrode on or just inside the surface of the molten metal.

Any pointers on what I'm doing wrong?

Dane.

Im no very little about any welding and im just getting by on what i read and some input from older gentleman who know a little more but I just did i little bit of ark welding pretty similiar conditions to yours with an ancient arc welder i call "Noah".. (Noah Ark = Arc Welder.. get it hehehe..)

Anywho.. this is how mine turned out and seemed to hold the stud enough but mine obviously has a gapping hole where i've finished the weld for some reason..

hope the pic is clear enough too..

Guy's your probably not doing much wrong at all. Those inclusions are typical when stick / cig welding, they are actually small deposits of flux from the stick / wire.
Ways you may reduce them are ensure the sticks are bone dry, use higher quality sticks ('OK' are a good yard stick) ensure a good earth and as clean an area to weld (material to be welded) as possible. And weld as high amperage as you can before 'melting through'.
Gas-less mig = same as above. I dont personally like gasless mig (cig) You will always get a much better weld quality from true MIG (Argon gas shield when welding mild steel for best results)
Hope this helps !

If only my sparrow turd welding looked that good. Some of those little inverter welders are so easy to use, my cigweld may be traded in....

GOD wrote:Who's handy with an arc welder? I'm not.

Even on what should be a dead simple weld, I still get little inclusions:



The picture of the weld isn't very clear, but there is a little spot of slag trapped in the middle. You can see the corresponding hole in the middle of the slag that chipped off. Inclusions usually seem to occur, as in this case, where I've pull the electrode away to finish the weld.

That's a butt join done lying flat on the steel surface of the workbench. Both pieces are 3mm mild. Using 2.5mm CIG Satincraft 13 electrodes in a little CIG welder, running at just under 100A. I try to keep the tip of the electrode on or just inside the surface of the molten metal.

Any pointers on what I'm doing wrong?

Dane.

Cant comment on the inclusion with arc welding (done mostly mig) But this looks like not high enough amps. as 1111giles said, run as high current as you can till you get blow through. Also listen to the sound it makes...should be consistent "machine gun" sound.

Try some tests...Spot weld2 bits of scrap then break em apart...the weld or steel should break, the weld should never peel off which is what happens if the amps arent high enough.

PS: dont get lazy with covering arms & eyes, flash burn is a bitch!

When I arc weld I don't put the tip of the electrode in the pool, I was taught to have it slightly above (same distance as the diameter of electrode your are using? could be wrong there) And watch out as the electrode melts off your arc length will get longer and longer of course.

Also not very applicable for spot welding but drag the pool so you aren't pushing slag into it, at the end of a weld hold it stationary for a count or two to finish it properly.

And that inclusion is barely noticeable anyway, acceptable in my book unless you are building a submarine

GOD wrote:Who's handy with an arc welder? I'm not.

Even on what should be a dead simple weld, I still get little inclusions:



The picture of the weld isn't very clear, but there is a little spot of slag trapped in the middle. You can see the corresponding hole in the middle of the slag that chipped off. Inclusions usually seem to occur, as in this case, where I've pull the electrode away to finish the weld.

That's a butt join done lying flat on the steel surface of the workbench. Both pieces are 3mm mild. Using 2.5mm CIG Satincraft 13 electrodes in a little CIG welder, running at just under 100A. I try to keep the tip of the electrode on or just inside the surface of the molten metal.

Any pointers on what I'm doing wrong?

Dane.

what angle do you have the rod at? when you pull the electrode away from the pool it does that if you dont pause before ending the weld

Wagonman wrote:Im no very little about any welding and im just getting by on what i read and some input from older gentleman who know a little more but I just did i little bit of ark welding pretty similiar conditions to yours with an ancient arc welder i call "Noah".. (Noah Ark = Arc Welder.. get it hehehe..)

Anywho.. this is how mine turned out and seemed to hold the stud enough but mine obviously has a gapping hole where i've finished the weld for some reason..

hope the pic is clear enough too..

same deal here I think (again what angle are you to the job? )
Noah lol

1111giles wrote:Guy's your probably not doing much wrong at all. Those inclusions are typical when stick / cig welding, they are actually small deposits of flux from the stick / wire.
Ways you may reduce them are ensure the sticks are bone dry, use higher quality sticks ('OK' are a good yard stick) ensure a good earth and as clean an area to weld (material to be welded) as possible. And weld as high amperage as you can before 'melting through'.
Gas-less mig = same as above. I dont personally like gasless mig (cig) You will always get a much better weld quality from true MIG (Argon gas shield when welding mild steel for best results)
Hope this helps !

good tip about dry rods
when I was welding heaps in the Northern Territory we used to bake our rods for the shift for best results

steptoe wrote:If only my sparrow turd welding looked that good. Some of those little inverter welders are so easy to use, my cigweld may be traded in....

I always described my efforts as cocky turds

nachaluva wrote:
PS: dont get lazy with covering arms & eyes, flash burn is a bitch!

Very good advice , Ive suffered many a burn from arc... not nice

Silverbullet wrote:When I arc weld I don't put the tip of the electrode in the pool, I was taught to have it slightly above (same distance as the diameter of electrode your are using? could be wrong there) And watch out as the electrode melts off your arc length will get longer and longer of course.

Also not very applicable for spot welding but drag the pool so you aren't pushing slag into it, at the end of a weld hold it stationary for a count or two to finish it properly.

And that inclusion is barely noticeable anyway, acceptable in my book unless you are building a submarine

thats about what I was taught too

its mostly practice and getting comfortable with it (took me years before I was happy with mine - slow learner lol)

it would be a good idea to google all this?

there are lots of little tips ive been given, then forgotten cause Im not allowed to play with stick.............

Keep the end of the electrode above the weld pool by 3-4mm, angle the electrode in the direction of travel (about 10cm with a full length rod), at the end of the weld, run back and fill the crater caused by the force of the arc, then lift.
Rod selection is important, the weld will vary a lot in strength depending on your electrodes.
Of course, Sod's law applies, the strongest welds are obtained from the more difficult to use electrodes.
Been a boilermaker for over 25 yrs, and what you've shown is not too shabby, seen a LOT worse.
Keep practising, you'll only get better.
BTW, satincraft 13's are probably the easiest electrode to use, but they dont have much penetration, so remember to leave a gap between your weld pieces of about 1/2 metal thickness if you want maximum strength. Or just boost your power a little. 10 amps or so.

steptoe wrote:If only my sparrow turd welding looked that good. Some of those little inverter welders are so easy to use, my cigweld may be traded in....

The high school metalwork teacher called my welding cocky shit from 30,000 feet

spike wrote:it would be a good idea to google all this?

there are lots of little tips ive been given, then forgotten cause Im not allowed to play with stick.............

Thanks, champ. When I want a youtube vid called "how to weld", I'll google it. When I want a specific question answered, I'll ask the question.

Silverbullet wrote: Also not very applicable for spot welding but drag the pool so you aren't pushing slag into it, at the end of a weld hold it stationary for a count or two to finish it properly.

Battlewagon wrote:Keep the end of the electrode above the weld pool by 3-4mm, angle the electrode in the direction of travel (about 10cm with a full length rod), at the end of the weld, run back and fill the crater caused by the force of the arc, then lift.

That seems to be the trick - I've been pulling away too quickly. Today I've been going back to fill the crater, holding the electrode just off the weld for a second then pulling away. Gets much better results.

Next thing to experiment with is electrode-to-job distance. I have previously been told to get closer, but may have gone too far.

Battlewagon wrote: Keep practising, you'll only get better.

I shall keep practising. Still got a looong list of projects to work on

Dane.

Think about what you're trying to do and you should be able to get the job done in the end.

Welding... You're trying to turn two pieces of metal into one, so melting things is what you need to do. All welding processes are the same really, as in, melt the two sides of the gap so you can combine them, and add as much extra metal as it takes to fill up the empty spaces.

A nice smooth looking bead of weld might look impressive, but it's not part of the structure if it's only sitting on the surface of the job pieces. If you're not absolutely sure that you saw the parent metal melting and combining with the rod as it drips in, then don't be affraid to grind the weld out and weld it again. the finished product won't look redone, and you'll be much surer that your weld is as much a part of the article as the original metal is...

One key thing is, make sure you have the right shade of welding lense for the weld you're doing. That way, you can comfortably get close and watch what your doing in the actual weld pool.

Have fun with it...

the weld looks like its glued on:)

To be frank, a 100A arc welder is just useless for any but the smallest of the smallest jobs.
You need 180A and more to start doing decent welding with arc.
However with a MIG, a 130A welder works good for 3mm+ mild steel - the
shielding gas makes all the difference.
arc without shielding gas just needs a lot more current and heat to do
a penetrating weld.
well thats my 2c opinion from a bit of experience, but my no means an expert.

fredsub wrote:the weld looks like its glued on:)

To be frank, a 100A arc welder is just useless for any but the smallest of the smallest jobs.
You need 180A and more to start doing decent welding with arc.
However with a MIG, a 130A welder works good for 3mm+ mild steel - the
shielding gas makes all the difference.
arc without shielding gas just needs a lot more current and heat to do
a penetrating weld.
well thats my 2c opinion from a bit of experience, but my no means an expert.

how so i used my $50 100 amp arc welder from aldi to weld my towbar tongue to its respective place and that was like 1cm thick still holds to this day apparently

fredsub wrote:the weld looks like its glued on:)

To be frank, a 100A arc welder is just useless for any but the smallest of the smallest jobs.
You need 180A and more to start doing decent welding with arc.
However with a MIG, a 130A welder works good for 3mm+ mild steel - the
shielding gas makes all the difference.
arc without shielding gas just needs a lot more current and heat to do
a penetrating weld.
well thats my 2c opinion from a bit of experience, but my no means an expert.

Some people are determined to pit one welding method against another. This is usually because they just don't fully understand the welding process. A 130 amp MIG is perfect for welding panel steel and steel sections up to 3mm thick. Anything thicker, and you CANNOT produce the heat required in the work piece in order to properly fuse the two sides together.

As for stick welding, a 100 amp welder is fine for just about anything (just not for long, because the duty cycle will slow you down). With a basic stick welder you can do pretty much anything. If you want to weld up a crack in cast iron, apply hard facing to digging implements, weld in high wind, weld in tiny spaces, braze with carbon arc, or weld under water, a MIG won't be any good to you. A stick welder on the other hand can do just about anything, with the appropriate electrodes. MIG has the big advantage when you're doing long weld runs, production line work, or needing to weld aluminium. And yes, it's easier to seam-weld panel steel on a car with a MIG, but it can still be done with a stick welder (with only a 140 amp stick welder and 3.25 mm x-ray quality steel rods at the time, I did quite a good job of welding a new section into the cab of a small truck)...

Great or not, I'm not going to buy a 100A stick welder. I'm saving up for the Cigweld transmig 175i with inverter inside That one that has a wire feed built in but can also do tig and stick.

Great now this is a "which welder is best" thread

TIG and fusion FTW =P