The AUSubaru.com.au Forums

Hey folks, hoping for a bit of advice from those in the know...

I will be purchasing a welder in the next few days to start off on a few small projects to get my skill up before making myself a spare wheel set up.

I journeyed into the good ol' bunnings today and almost bought a 140w arc for $150, before the dude showed me a gasless mig for $199, reduced from $399. I hadn't heard of gasless mig before, and was wondering...

How is gassless mig different from the normal arc process in terms of the science of it?

Is the actual operating different, i.e. striking, arc gap, speed and direction?

I'm sure there's enough welders on here to spread some light for me...

Cheers,
Owen.

How is gassless mig different from the normal arc process in terms of the science of it?

Gasless mig has a handheld torch with a trigger.
Pulling this trigger turns the welder on and feeds the wire out the end of the torch.

As you weld, the wire keeps feeding as long as the trigger is pulled.

The wire speed must be set to keep about 6-10mm of wire at the end of the tip at all times

Is the actual operating different, i.e. striking, arc gap, speed and direction?

With a mig, you just touch the wire on the metal you want to weld, pull the trigger and as long as you have your wire speed set correctly, you should produce nice welds almost instantly.
It is gasless because the flux is in the middle of the wire (kinda like solder)
No striking, no arc length, just enough speed to produce a nice weld pool and direction doesnt really matter


If it was me, id buy a MIG that can do both gas and gasless welding because gasless welds arent always pretty.

I had a 140amp Lincon gas/gasless MIG and it was a great all rounder.

I now have a 170amp CIGWELD inverter arc/tig, which ive ony used in arc mode twice.

How thick is the metal you are gonna be welding?

Trust me dont buy cheap crap as a welder buy one with a reputable name eg lincon miller wia etc

You get what you pay for.


I have a little lincon mig welder the 180c it is fantastic i only ever use it on mig.(My Dad is a farmer he bought one of these when i was in primary school still uses it nearly every day
never missed a beat in about 15 years).

Cheaper welders are to hard to weld right good ones are not so fussy.

Morcs wrote: dont buy cheap crap
You get what you pay for.

I agree fully

Morcs wrote:Trust me dont buy cheap crap as a welder buy one with a reputable name eg lincon miller wia etc

You get what you pay for.


I have a little lincon mig welder the 180c it is fantastic i only ever use it on mig.(My Dad is a farmer he bought one of these when i was in primary school still uses it nearly every day
never missed a beat in about 15 years).

Cheaper welders are to hard to weld right good ones are not so fussy.

I would have to agree, dont buy cheap stuff, unless your planning to do "rough" work, the weld on these welders arent strong and often doesnt get thru metal properly which will crack or break..

If your a 2 minute weld per 6 months person then go for cheap one, but if your gonna use it regularly then get a good one.

I use both, arc and gas mig, arc is good for basic quick work, but advanced work or heavy i use gas.
Cheers
AP

i brought my welder from bunnings 2 years ago its a cigweld gassless mig welder.
i have built many things with it as well as welding steel plates on my l series where the rust has eaten away

over all i couldn't be happier with it its never missed a beat (so far)

Go with a reputable name in welders. My uncle has a big cigweld (?) 260 gas mig. Its a beauty. This is what I'm hoping to make my lift kit with if I can get the materials anytime soon ($$$ and some info from Dave when he resurfaces).

+1 you get what you pay for. I'd also look at a store that specialises in welding/welders etc - they should give you better customer service and information, plus I avoid bunnings when I can...

I'd say save a little more and get a brand with a good reputation. If you're going for a biggish gas unit that needs a BOC bottle, ask about the rent on the bottle and how much a refill will cost too. From what my uncle tells me, BOC now (for some time) charge $100 per year per bottle in rent.

Can't wait to see your wheel carrier!

Cheers

Bennie

Wow, thanks for all the advice everyone! Lots of food for thought and I'll post up here some more questions as I look at some more welders 'in the flesh'.

El_Freddo wrote:
Can't wait to see your wheel carrier!

Typical swing arm set up except I'm fully replacing the rear bumper... also going to have an integrated removable bike rack and sealed storage boxes for recovery gear and jack, possibly also an outlet for the water bladder that's going in the old spare wheel well... It's going to be epic, thus the need for lots of mini projects to practice on first!

yeah i have a 220a Cigweld MIG welder. it's awesome. very happy with it indeed, but they are not cheap. gas welding is WAY WAY WAY better than gasless.

as others have said, it all comes down to what you're doign with it, and how often you'll use it.

and BOC gas is a rip off. i hate paying for bottle rental. a-holes. they reckon they only rent bottles because of safety. what cr@p (and the govt believes them). last i checked welding gas doesnt ignite unlike bbq gas bottles...hmmmm

Definately buy quality. I'm certified by my state for arc and wire feed. Its not often a glazier welds on the job...but its guaranteed to be from the basket of a manlift in an inaccessable location requiring you to be crammed up in some steel welding while you are on fire.

The most important quality a "welder" (the person, that is) can have is the knowledge and skill to produce a GOOD weld with whatever tools he has at hand. Quality is all about "fit for purpose", which means get whatever will do the job for the money you're willing to fork out...

A Sidchrome spanner won't be any better at undoing a stuck bolt than a cheapo spanner, except you won't need to spend as much time freeing up the bolt first. If you don't know what you're doing, the Sidchrome spanner can do more "damage" than a cheap one will.

So, limited features and power CAN actually mean less trouble for a novice...


On a lighter (but still very serious) note, give me a couple of car batteries, some jumper leads, and a bit of fencing wire heated up and dipped in sand/borax, and I'll weld it for ya.

ScubyRoo wrote: It's going to be epic, thus the need for lots of mini projects to practice on first!

I've got a mini project for you - make me a wheel carrier and rear bar for my L

Cheers

Bennie

El_Freddo wrote:I've got a mini project for you - make me a wheel carrier and rear bar for my L

Cheers

Bennie

Make that x2

Haha bennie and venom, you'll have to draw straws for the first one AKA the ugly duckling.

Thanks for your thoughts everyone, really appreciate the advice! Great to see what others are using

I've decided to do a tafe short course so I can try a few different machines before buying and get those insights and tips you can only get from experienced hands and that make a massive difference in the learning curve.

I've decided to go with a course in MIG as it sounds to be the most versatile, cleaner welds, more acurate than arc, cheaper than a TIG, and can still be used to weld aluminum on occasion.

Learning projects will be a trolly for my floor jack to make it high enough to work with my lifted car, an adapter for the scissor jack for the same reason, a tool rack for the garage, a new work table and finally a wheelie cart to walk our kayaks down to the beach.

Major projects on my list are my spare wheel carrier and a 6x4 trailer, and now apparently bennie and venom's spare wheelies too

ScubyRoo wrote:Major projects on my list are my spare wheel carrier and a 6x4 trailer, and now apparently bennie and venom's spare wheelies too

Already got the wheels mate, need the carrier

Cheers

Bennie

Heads up on the gas situation search Fleabay you can now buy the cylinders for Argon or Argoshield,only need testing every ten years,cost is around $300.00 with first fill and $80.00 per fill thereafter.Boc or Linde will charge around $100.00 per year just for bottle rental in a "D" size bottle.
Only negative I see is if you use a lot of gas and need bigger than a "D" size cylinder which they do not list as yet and in Sydney they only have 4 outlets as I doubt BOC etc would exchange the cylinders unless you have an account anyway
Our Mig gas at work is $159.00 rental for an "E" size cylinder PA and if we wanted to go up to a "G" size they wanted over a grand a year in rental alone what a ripoff.
Just search under welding on Fleabay to find this deal.

to get the e size bottle refilled with co2 is about 76 bucks at boc, argon is about 140.
if you are going to do aluminium you need argon.
gasless is ok but should be done outside as the fumes from the wire are quite harmful to the body and if inhaled build up heavy metals in the bones and blood etc which are sometimes difficult for the body to eject, occasional indoor use is not too bad but depends on your individual physiology. like asthma some people can breath paint fumes ok some people like me can't even walk into a spray paint shop.
if you are going to do a lot of indoor gasless get a GOOD repirator designed for the job.
also gasless wire is pretty expensive, a 4.5k roll is about $80, the gas type is about 30 bucks. the small 1.5? k gasless rolls are about 30 bucks and don't last long, so if you have a project in mind rent an e size bottle and hand it back in when you finish, save $11 or so a month.
you can get disposable gas bottles CO2 are about $30, Argon $32, depends where you shop, you need a special regulator for them may come with the kit if you buy it new or dealer might chuck it in if you push him,(does not have a gauge) if you have to buy one new they are about $42, although they are on ebay for around $73 plus post, a bit exy. the bottles last about 25 minutes but that is total so can be not too bad if you only need occasionally.
with a bit of practice they are ok. if you are going to do much aluminium get a tig, much easier to use, can flow weld, with mig the weld is instant, but tig are pretty expensive and mig will do most small jobs.

yeah i "rent" an E bottle from BOC at the moment - i'd really love to know if it was possible to buy an E bottle and fill it. at $162pa rental, a $300 outlay to buy the bottle and a test every 10 years if good with me!