Custom CV Shafts

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:13 pm

I am doing some research into custom made CV shafts. Basically i need a shaft 15-20mm longer then a Standard L series shaft made up. I have 2 Quotes for well over $300 a shaft which is extreme because there is not that much work involved (i know the Splines are relatively hard to cut on the mill). I wish i had a lathe and a Miller right now.
The hard bit has been finding out what material the actually shafts are made of, so far i believe they are made of a Grade 43 Steel. I have a local company who will make them, if i can get the material, for not much.

My Questions are...
1. What is the material they are made from?
2. Where can i get that material?
3. Can anyone suggest a shaft that is around 27mm wide and around 550mm inbetween the splines that could be cut down to suit?
4. Can anyone suggest anywhere else to get them made that might be cheaper?

Thanks in advance
Matt

GOD · Post by **GOD** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:37 pm

Matt wrote: 3. Can anyone suggest a shaft that is around 27mm wide and around 550mm inbetween the splines that could be cut down to suit?

I'd be heading off to my friendly local CV shop or wrecker with a tape measure. There's bound to be something with CV shafts and a wider body than an L series. Or even the axle shafts out of a live axle, eg Falcon would be around those dimensions.

Dane.

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:52 pm

I have already Tried numerous CV experts for a shaft, i haven't had a chance to do the tape mearure at the wreckers yet, but i will next week hopefully.
However you just gave me an idea, which i had thought of, there is nothing stoping me using a Shaft out of Landbrusier / Patrol as they will be way long enough and pretty easy to come by and should be nice and tough.

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 9:10 pm

What do you need them for? You might find there's a better option.

Most manufactures won't cut down an existing axle and re-spline it. They like to cut the splines while the steel is still soft and then heat treat it.

All depends how much pressure you intend to put the shaft under. I cut, welded and sleeved some 23 spline front shafts to mock up what I wanted to do. I'm glad I did too because I changed the length a few times before I got it right. Then to test the car while waiting for the new custom made shafts to arrive, I used the welded up shafts. Much to my surprise I never broke one and now I carry them as spares.

AlpineRaven · Post by **AlpineRaven** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 9:26 pm

how come you wanna longer CVs?
I agree with GOD, to go to wreckers to measure up with tape measure, there is a wrecker in Deer Park has a whole rank of CV joints all sorts of sizes etc... worth a check?
Cheers
AP

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:38 am

Basically my DOJ is coming to far out. It keeps pulling/busting the circlip that holds the bearing in the out cup/race. I believe this is being caused by a combination of the longer front struts and the camber kit in the front.

Thanks for all the ideas keep them coming.

So therefore i want to push it back in the cup slightly to hopefully stop this

Brumbyrunner i don't want one to be cut up and reweld (as i don't want to have a busted shaft at the weld), i want one way longer to remanufacture the size i need. Where did you get yours made up out of interest and roughly what cost?

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:23 am

Try looking into Liberty shafts, they are longer.

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:22 pm

The couple liberty ones i have down stairs are the same length and then i have the problem of matching the splines on the gearbox and disc.
All from a Gen 2 Liberty, unless later models have different shafts?

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:02 pm

I don't want you to break shafts either. Building a mock up shaft is just a handy method of determining what length will work best before you commit to the expense of custom shafts.
But from your first post I was under the impression you needed rear shafts. Longer rear Brumby shafts are a custom job only. Longer fronts are much easier. There's a bunch of different splines and spline combinations available.
So first of all, just tell me exactly what you have under the car right now.
Is it all Brumby? Gearbox, driveshaft, hub, lower control arm & radius rod?
What are these longer front struts and how is the camber adjusted?

subybrumby · Post by **subybrumby** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:45 pm

I was heading down this track a few years ago. But anyway, what I wanted to say was try a CV specialist. I went to one in Toowoomba and he had a bin full of old axles etc. Just have a dig through with your tape measure and see what they've got. They usually can identify them for you. I had a fellow go through his lot here in Toowoomba and was rattling off what each was out off. Might save crawling around the wreckers.

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:09 pm

Been to the numerous CV specialists already, that was my first port of call.

Brumbyrunner, first of all my applogies i should have but all this in my post. Here the list is sorry if i miss anything.

L series Control Arms
L series 5 Speed gearbox
Adjustable Camber (read changes the position of the top control arm mount in and out on a horizontal axis)
Adjustable castor / radius rods
3" longer travel/raised struts (Actually below 1" extra ride height due to no front Lift blocks, and the springs are starting to sag slightly, these are from Steve from Rising Sun).

Current wheel alignment is as follows
Camber 0 Degrees
Caster 5 degrees
Toe 5 mm toe out

CV's are L series shaft and inner joint, with MY / Brumby outer joint and Hub. I am happy to convert to L series hubs, discs and outer if it opens up the CV shaft option but would prefer to stay 4 stud as i am happy with the tyres i have already, etc.

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:58 pm

First thing I would do is check that the CV cage is actually hitting the circlip on full rebound and not the driveshaft hitting the side of the CV cup. I'm a bit dubious of any extra rebound travel gained from installing longer front struts or bigger strut tops for both of those reasons. If you strip and clean the inner joint and reassemble it without the boot you'll get a good look at it.
If you're happy the joint angle is acceptable and turns freely at maximum rebound, check how much travel is left in the cup when the driveshaft is level (ie. at it's shortest length) You can do this better by removing the rollpin and sliding the cup on the gearbox output shaft. Needless to say you can only increase the axle length by whatever spare travel you find in that inner joint.
Thats not the end of it though. Once you determine how much you can extend the axle length and acquire that longer axle, you'll need to re-check that the new axle doesn't bottom out inside the DOJ or hit the side of the DOJ cup at full rebound.
The next longest axles after the L series ones you have now are just the same 23 spline ones found in early 4WD Libertys.

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:09 pm

Also, you probably don't have a top control arm. But I'll take it you have adjustable strut tops instead?

I don't know if you realise but it would seem you've probably caused the problem. If you've pushed the front hubs forward with the L series lower control arms and then tilted them chasing negative camber, you'll have effectively shortened the driveshaft travel. But as long as you're staying with your current suspension geometry, a Liberty axle might just be the ticket. If not, there are longer ones again.

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:55 pm

I realise i have caused the problem and i am kicking myself now, but i like the setup and want to just fix this problem hopefully.

At the CV's shortest distance it is pulling out to far (hitting the circlip) and the shaft is not hitting the cup, the angle is fine. At the Shafts longest length it has around 20-25mm.

Sorry about the piss poor explanation on the control arm mounting. A picture says a thousand words. It is an old picture but before the L Series arms, etc.

Shot with KODAK CX4200 DIGITAL CAMERA at 2006-07-23

Also what liberty axles are you refering to, so i can go grab one and have a look? I have some Gen 2 ones down stairs which i will have a look at later tonight.

Thanks for your help so far everyone.

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:24 pm

Impressive. You've built camber adjustment into the engine crossmember/lower control arm. Did you design that or Rising Sun Steve?

I don't really understand this explanation.

At the CV's shortest distance it is pulling out to far (hitting the circlip) and the shaft is not hitting the cup, the angle is fine. At the Shafts longest length it has around 20-25mm.

But it sounds like you only have 20 to 25mm travel in your inner joint.

I'm away from home so don't have access to my records or spare parts so all of this is just from memory. Try a Liberty 23 spline front axle and see how it goes. It will clip straight into L series or MY 23 spline CVs so either strip an L or MY front shaft or by new bits.
You won't be able to buy the shaft off the shelf anyway but make sure you mock it all up dry before you grease it and fit the boots.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if this gets you out of trouble.

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:39 pm

Sorry i am really bad at explaining stuff in text, but what you said is right. If i could take a photo easily i would do that.
"But it sounds like you only have 20 to 25mm travel in your inner joint. "

Looks like i am stripping some shafts down stairs from my bro's Liberty, i will let you know how it goes.

If you can remember what is the next step up from the liberty shaft in a 23 Spline?

Thanks so much for your help so far, i really appreciate it.

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:45 pm

I can't remember how much longer the Lib shaft is but it may be too long anyway. I think it might be 40mm longer but you'll soon know.

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:30 pm

I just tried a Gen 2 and the splines are different and where the splines are, is heaps smaller. The length would be about right and it is to long i can get it cut down and re splined cheaply here in town.

So who knows what model/year 4wd liberty came out with a 23 spline CV shaft?

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:41 pm

What spline count do yours have?
I think you should forget about cutting axles and getting them resplined.

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:57 pm

I didn't count but they where a fair bir different maybe around 15-18, i will count exactly tomorrow hopefully. Hopefully i will be able to buy an off the shelf shaft... And i can forget about cutting, etc.