Jeep Liberty

Outback bloke · Post by **Outback bloke** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:59 am

I find it quite ironic that Jeep now has a version called the Liberty. The irony is due to Jeep proclaiming to be the first 4wd ever with a monocoque body design when it fact it was actually a Subaru.

Jeep Liberty

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:11 pm

The Jeep Liberty has been around for a few years. Their first monocoque (they actually call it unibody because they can't prononuce monocock) was the Grand Cherokee. What they might have claim to is the first monocoque with live axles.

Wilbur · Post by **Wilbur** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:08 pm

What he said.

Outback bloke · Post by **Outback bloke** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:26 pm

The first Grand Cherokee (SJ) wasn't monocoque. It was the (XJ) Jeep Cherokee which saw the light of day around 1984 that was the initial (unibody) and it is the one that they used to advertise as being the worlds first monocoque 4wd. I recall they even had a sticker on the back passengers window saying just that.

Raises the old argument of if a 4wd must have live axles. If you ask Jeep it must. If you ask me, if it drives all 4 wheels it is 4WD, which is probably why Subaru used to have a 4WD sticker on their 4wds, hey?

Wilbur · Post by **Wilbur** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:32 pm

XJ really ? Shows how much I look at Jeeps. But I thought the first grand was a ZJ, then WJ then WG

Outback bloke · Post by **Outback bloke** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:58 pm

It was, I was basically talking model shape. The first Grand Cherokee in the XJ shape didn't come out until around 94 I think.

Wilbur · Post by **Wilbur** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:36 pm

Yeah the grand had different model code I suppose you could call it. No idea on years of production though.

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:35 pm

Its a Jeep, enough said!

And yes, I agree, if it powers all four wheels, its a four wheel drive... Live axles or not!

Cheers

Bennie

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:15 pm

Does that logic make the Spyder a 4wd?

Personally, I'd have called it an All Wheel Drive
I am of the view that 4WD's are for use off-road

Outback bloke · Post by **Outback bloke** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:27 pm

Using that theory, what is a Forester?

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:44 pm

Outback bloke wrote:Using that theory, what is a Forester?

Well, Subaru describe it as " ... a legendary Subaru All-Wheel Drive system" and "multi-award winning compact SUV" so take your pick.

With outstanding interior space, class-leading safety and the legendary Subaru All-Wheel Drive system, the new generation Forester delivers outstanding driving pleasure, in style. With unprecedented versatility, you will find the new generation Forester is everything that made Forester a multi-award winning compact SUV, and more

http://www.subaru.com.au/models/forester/

Outback bloke · Post by **Outback bloke** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:55 pm

Ok, let me get this straight, a Forester that drives all 4 wheels and is used offroad is not a 4wd and the nancy boy car you posted before that drives all 4 wheels for superior traction, obviously, is also not a 4wd car. yet they both have 4 wheels and they both drive all 4 wheels.

It is the AWD acronym that was brought in to the marketing pitch to sell 4wds to yuppies that has caused this problem. The invention of a 4wd was for a vehicle to attain as much traction as possible from all 4 wheels.

There is 4wd cars designed purely for road use. The one you posted up is an example. Then you have the full on offroad 4wd designed vehicles. These are generally all painted the same colour across the model range and sold to farmers for plowing paddocks.

Somewhere in the middle is what we are talking about. They are all 4wd.

RetroLover · Post by **RetroLover** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:37 pm

Only in Australia is the Subaru Legacy not called the Subaru Legacy, but is called the Liberty as a sign of respect to the Legacy Organisation that deals with Australian War veterans. Since there is no car in the American market called the Liberty i guess it was a good patriotic name to call a car that is built in there own country. Something similar happened with the Fiat Bravo that was introduced into Australia early this year, since there is already a car bearing that name (Mazda Bravo), Fiat Australia decided to change the name to Fiat Ritmo.

That Jeep looks kinda cool, not that ugly roundy shit manufactores choose to design there car these days from, those yank cars use pretty old tech in there engines, i guess that wouldnt matter with those Americans cause they are paying around 25% less for petrol a liter than us.

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:09 pm

The way i see it

4WD = Normally 2WD for road use, but with a shifting mechanism for selecting 4WD mode, like Hilux, Patrol, etc have used for years. (also includes MY and L series Subarus)

AWD = Power is delivered to all wheels, via means of either a differential, viscous coupling or variable clutch pack to allow cornering on hard road surfaces.
Includes all current Subarus, and the vast majority of SUV's on the market.

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:16 pm

Outback bloke wrote:Raises the old argument of if a 4wd must have live axles. If you ask Jeep it must. If you ask me, if it drives all 4 wheels it is 4WD, which is probably why Subaru used to have a 4WD sticker on their 4wds, hey?

Funny thing is, the Jeep Liberty (which was called the Cherokee here) has IFS.

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:32 pm

Suparoo wrote:The way i see it

4WD = Normally 2WD for road use, but with a shifting mechanism for selecting 4WD mode, like Hilux, Patrol, etc have used for years. (also includes MY and L series Subarus)

AWD = Power is delivered to all wheels, via means of either a differential, viscous coupling or variable clutch pack to allow cornering on hard road surfaces.
Includes all current Subarus, and the vast majority of SUV's on the market.

Where do you put the constant 4WD vehicles like the Landcruiser wagon? They do have low range but so do some Libertys, Foresters and Imprezas

D3V1L · Post by **D3V1L** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:44 pm

Suparoo wrote:The way i see it

4WD = Normally 2WD for road use, but with a shifting mechanism for selecting 4WD mode, like Hilux, Patrol, etc have used for years. (also includes MY and L series Subarus)

AWD = Power is delivered to all wheels, via means of either a differential, viscous coupling or variable clutch pack to allow cornering on hard road surfaces.
Includes all current Subarus, and the vast majority of SUV's on the market.

so what about the 100 series landcruiser in my driveway? with jack up air suspension and big assed mud terrain tyres for offroad??? its an AWD car untill the low range is selected....there is never a point where it is rear wheel drive?

this whole age old question is gonna keep causing arguments and spitefull comments caus there is NO definitive answer and there never will be

some may even say a 4WD vehicle is one in which all 3 diffs in the car (ie: front centre rear) are all lockable for TRUE 4WD. but is this entirely true? no...it all depends on the circumstance and the car and the individula

that is all:)
dave

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:24 am

Ok,.. i'll add a 3rd definition.

FT4WD = Has an open centre differential with a locking mechanism. examples are Landcruisers and FT4WD Subaru (l series) gearboxes

Outback bloke · Post by **Outback bloke** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:34 am

FT4WD an Constant 4WD are most likely the reason the acronym AWD was made up. It is catchy and a damn site better looking in a sticker/badge.

IMO, it is all marketing, nothing else why we have "AWD". Common sense says if it can drive 4 wheels then it is a 4wd. Whether it is part time or full time, the end result is the same.

Wilbur · Post by **Wilbur** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:30 am

Dunno if it has been said, can't be bother reading but this is may take.

Real 4wd to me means you can either lock a centre diff on an otherwise AWD vehicle (ah la cruiser wagon) or you have a transfer case to engage to provide a 50-50 split front to rear ah la Hilux.

AWD to me means if it feals like it you get drive all 4 wheels. Centre diff is open and cannot be locked.

But then I could really be an arse and say unless it has 50-50 split and cross axle locks it's not a real 4wd. All 4 wheels get drive even if they are 3 feet in the air. Now if you were being absolute about it, then that is a 'real' 4wd. So factory 'real' 4wds are Jeep wrangler rubicon and the toyota models you can select factory cross axle locks on.

Either way axle type and dual range has nothing to do with it.