EA82 lifters - intimate knowledge request

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:43 pm

does anyone have an intimate knowledge of the hydraulic lifters / lash adjusters of the EA82 and EA82T ?

some may know I am midway in renewing my lifters in chasing down an intermittent and characteristic miss on cylinder #2 that smacks of lifter pump up as described in here somewhere in relation to service short cuts READ: WRONG OIL GRADE (not the heading of relevant article either)

http://www.fueltech.com.au/trade_vehicletips.html

I have found both of #2 to be rock hard on removal. The new ones without oil have some allowable depression. Possibly the removed ones still with oil won't allow budge. The manuel talks about no more than 0.5mm depression with oil. I am not sure if I have found the problem gone looking for. Valve springs do feel really strong for those that say weak valve springs. My head guys dismiss weak valve springs due to the characteristics of the miss

looking at the head design and the lifter it looks that the oil pressure arrives via a common gallery, surround the 'waist' of the lifter and enters via the hole in the upper side of the 'waist' or lesser diameter section. It enters the piston chamber and below where a spring sits and below that a ball bearing valve to a chamber below.

There doews not appear to be an exit for the oil , other than the clearances betweeen the piston and its bore to the outside world where the cam and rocker is. Also between the lifter and its bore in the head.

So, does oil actually flow through the lifter or just supply it with pressure to assist the built in spring ?

I suppose I should include some photos of a dismantled one for all to see

IF ONLY I COULD POST BIGGER PHOTOS THAN IMAGESHACK APPEARS TO ALLOW ME

Matatak · Post by **Matatak** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:53 pm

did the Head guy not clean them out??

ive been told by our own Head guy at work that using thicker oil in newer cars can cause the Valves to hold open as they have weaker valve springs nowadays.

no exit for the oil does make sense.

also see what this thread is all about as i have not read it.

Whats so special about HVLA's?

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:07 am

The heads were sent without lifters, sorry HVLA's

EA82 would not qualify as a new engine design, but you are right, new engine use correct grade of oil to avoid mishaps

found a great diagram of both the lifter (think i reassembled my sample incorrectly now seeing it and the photo GREAT FIND BTW ) and the oil gallery flow chart. I guess it is clearances of HVLA in its bore that allow lubrication and retains oil pressure. Flow chart shows oil just entering lifter not leaving , and important to note is the oil spray bar sitting on cam box - the big bolt holding it there has a pressure relief valve for oil presure in the head, cam and lifter regions - it is to the front on the diagram near #2 exhaust - the suspected culprit. It will get a looking at and reasonably easy to access it just under rocker cover

Matatak - thanks again for the link

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:46 am

queue : ElFredo......

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:10 pm

the one I pulled apart first not from patient. The second however was, it was as sitff as , no depression at all. I pulled it apart more carefully noting precise parts sequence and orientation this time round. I simply cleaned it out, jiggled the ball bearing valve with INOX and reassembled. Plunger now depresses fully and smoothly, just like my new ones to go in. The test is to somehow fill with oil and ensure it does not depress more than 0.5mm. Going to use Singer sewing machine oil for its grade. So just on a physical clean out (not one using a fix in a bottle clean out) I go from VIAGRA overdose to like new. The other patient is same condition, stiff as, even from an attempted vice squeeze. I should kee it this way as an example but think rather than disassembly I will soak it in various thnning degreasing solutions to see what happens as physical dissembly can damage the collar holding things together.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:26 pm

Was thinking that if you had time and inclination and aptitude , maybe convert these things to solids by shimming the internals (like bucket solids and some Diesels) and use plastigage in an apropriate spot, reassemble to measure the plastigage and adjust accordingly.

Word is that rally guys crudely weled in adjusters somehow.

I just wonder if solids would work because these are lash adjusters cushioning the blow and not directly in the line of movement - just off to the side

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:36 pm

AndrewT wrote:queue : ElFredo......

Long time between drinks but I've made it here now...

steptoe wrote:Was thinking that if you had time and inclination and aptitude , maybe convert these things to solids by shimming the internals (like bucket solids and some Diesels) and use plastigage in an apropriate spot, reassemble to measure the plastigage and adjust accordingly.

Word is that rally guys crudely weled in adjusters somehow.

I just wonder if solids would work because these are lash adjusters cushioning the blow and not directly in the line of movement - just off to the side

Yeah, solids... probabily only worth it on a carbie engine - I did it on my MPFI and it didn't really take off til after 4000 RPM but was (I think) quite torquie comparied to the hydrolic lifters. I didn't get to take it offroad in this setup. If you have a programable ECU you may beable to get better performance out of the system and solids, I had bog stock everything except the lifters.

Solids are painful for several reasons - they need to be adjusted precisely - If you're not a patient or determined person then this is not for you. - the cam box is annoying to take on and off as you try to get the gapping correct on the solids.

The rally guys may have made a cam box section that they could get to the lifters when everything was bolted up, all they'd have to do then is warm up the engine, turn it off and weld the hydrolic lifters where they were.

Also, if you get one lifter adjustment out either way you will not like the result - too high and the valve won't seal properly, too low and its clacks away worse than a mini at the best of times...

If your lifter design is not good then they will break - like mine did 2hrs from Ceduna en route to WA, 40km from the nearest town with no mobile reception. You can check that saga out here - comes with a dial up warning...

I got the idea from one of dad's mates up in QLD that's running a VW beetle for rally with an EA82 and solid lifters. "Trade secret" but dad got the parts for me to make up a set, I don't know where they came from but they were literally a threaded lobe for the follower arm to sit on. Painful to adjust though.

I'd maybe have a go at it with a carbie '82 again, but this was another nail in the coffin for working on EA82's.

Its all about patience and precision with solids. If you get it right and they don't break, the old '82 will go nuts.

I'd probabily look at cleaning out the guts of the hydrolic lifters and see how that goes - the biggest problem here is that the oil fills the lifter and doesn't go much further than that. Any crap that gets in there is stuck too. The lifters over time will shag out between the plunger/cam arm lobe part and the main body of the HL that sits in the head - this creates a pressure leak in the lifter that could possibly be the reason for noisy lifters. I'd also suspect that noisy lifters = lifters that are not opening the valve completely = loss of performance, probabily not noticable but would be happening.

The other thing to check is the oil galleries of the head to the lifters, if these are clogged you'll never get the lifters to fill and pressurise with oil.

Good luck with it if you decide to go down the road of soilds, don't let me put you off - I had one car to drive every day and did this to it with un-desirable results...

Cheers

Bennie

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:16 pm

At this stage I lack the inclination. Mate, to remove and replace a cam box in-situ with auto cooler hoses and air cond lines --- what a BITCH !! (apologies to any readers with six tits!)
The offending bracket has been moved. Just gotta shove radiator and hoses back on and she is ready for a test - tomorrow , if successful I may just do the other sides lifters. Just gotta get the gas workin' right

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:41 pm

Sorry forgot to mention that each time I did the lifter adjustments I took the motor out... made access a lot easier.

Cheers

Bennie