Diff locks

Brumby Boy · Post by **Brumby Boy** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:07 pm

brumbyrunner wrote:Is this a trick question?
No I don't.
I've never been interested enough to find out. Sounds like a savage thing to do to your diff.

Na not a trick question, i have read magazines like street machine and the like where people state they have a full spool of a mini spool or what ever, i have never been able to get anyone to explain to me in any sort of detail what the difference is, no one i know could tell me the between a locker and a spool but this thread has told me the difference, thanks,

if anyone can tell me the difference it would be appreciated

Point · Post by **Point** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:08 pm

BYB-01 wrote:The AWD systems slip front to back all the time while you are driving. I can not see any way that this will make them slip any more or less. Maybe at different times, but no more or less.

I'm with you on this one. IMHO the box most suited to this application is the FT L box with the open center, as there would be no resistance when unlocked, as opposed to the lsd centers of the EJ boxes.

Brumby Boy wrote:Brumby Runner do you know the difference between a mini spool, half spool and a full spool??

mini spool replaces the spider gears to convert an open diff to locked, full spool replaces the complete center. I've never heard of a half spool but I would guess it's someone else's name for a mini spool.

Xtreme_RX · Post by **Xtreme_RX** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:24 pm

Brett (BYB-01) I seriously think you will be shearing off rear shafts as fast as you can fit them in to your wagon.
I know how much you like corners & accelerating through them.

Any body who fits one to there AWD vehicle will HAVE to change there driving habits.

Auto un-lockers are a VERY crude in there operation (I know I sell Loka & lokrite & have driven many Hilux's & Suzuki's with rear auto un-lockers.) You CAN NOT accelerate in or out of a corner you have to let it coast around it or the locker will lock back up & off side ways you go. I almost wrapped a Suzuki Jimny around a light post when I gave it a boot full out of a roundabout at my work.......

They WILL work fine with Subaru's AWD just you will have to totally adjust your driving style/ habits.

Outback bloke · Post by **Outback bloke** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:44 pm

You CAN NOT accelerate in or out of a corner you have to let it coast around it or the locker will lock back up & off side ways you go. I almost wrapped a Suzuki Jimny around a light post when I gave it a boot full out of a roundabout at my work.......

Half the fun of owning one. No different to the GT Falcon I used to drive that had one fitted to it from the factory. Learn to drive it to suit the diff and you can do some pretty special things.

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:25 pm

El_Freddo wrote:The only difference i can see is that the subaru has independant suspension, meaning that we have CV joints as opposed to a solid axel from the diff centre to the wheel... this may be a problem, i don't know...

Now I want to point out as nicely as I can that some Range Rovers are fully independant and some Landcruisers have IFS.

Hell yeah... what i was saying is that i didn't think ppl would be that up front with a "you were wrong", rather sort of bend it a little so to be a little gentle about it ps: when are new pics of the brumby project going up?

I have a very much suck it and see approach to this. I want one and I'm gonna see what it does.

I guess we should all be thanking (sorry, can't remember who it was) for splitting the car and diff for this deal we've got.

It was Scott. Thanks Scott.

Still want to know if these will be available after the initial purchase... or doesn't anyone know yet?

I remember when you could buy these suckers from LDS, brand new, in stock, off the shelf. I waited until I needed one. I should have bought their entire stock.
Wont happen to me again.

Re the racecar-I put a bunch of new pics up on my thread on Friday night.

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:38 pm

BYB-01 wrote: I would have it in there now if I didn't have to get it copied.

It would be a crime against humanity if you didn't have it copied first.

Phizinza · Post by **Phizinza** » Wed May 02, 2007 1:35 pm

brumbyrunner wrote:WHAT? Tell me, how does the inside wheel slow down?

Sorry, bad wording? What I ment is in a normal open differential when cornering the inner wheel goes slower then the crown wheel and the outer goes faster then the crown wheel. Where in a auto locker setup the inner goes the same speed as the crown wheel and the outer goes faster then the crown wheel.

But hey, I don't own one of these diffs, so who knows.

BlackMale wrote:Jack have a look at the pics and vids section and/or someone may be able to send you the link for the youtube thing that looked at just this… the difference between the AWD systems.

Do other members know what I am talking about or do I have to be more specific?

I'm not sure if I'm right here or not, but I'm pretty sure most/all of the FT4WD's out there are open centre diffs, not LSD's like Subaru EJ AWD is. With the LSD there will be more 'slipage' going on in the diff but a open diff will just take it and 'should' be happy. I think that's what you were getting at Brett.

Phizinza · Post by **Phizinza** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:19 am

So, how is this diff locker copy going? Do you think you can get it done? I am really wanting a locked diff again.

Outback bloke · Post by **Outback bloke** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 5:26 pm

It is at the diff shop and has been for quite a while. I had forgotten about it though. I will make a call and find out how they are going. The bloke didn't seem to hesitate in saying they could copy it, he just wanted to pull it apart to quote it.

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:52 pm

My understanding of these "unlockers" is that they are made in a series of sizes to suit the basic dimensions of a range of carriers .

For those unsure of the termonology the carrier is everything between the carrier or hemisphere bearings except the crownwheel itself which is bolted to a flange at one end of the carrier housing . The carrier contains the cross pin/s that retain the planet gears which mesh with and drive the side gears , the side gears are hollow so to speak and have splines which the axles slide into .
A Detroit Locker is a complete replacement carrier/hemisphere and dimensionally the same as a std carrier meaning it positions the crownwheel where it needs to be and has the same spline dimensions as the std diffs side gears . Differential strength is generally determined by the size and material spec of the crownwheel/pinion and axles so when the torque rating increases so does the size of these components . The R160/180/200 series are called that because this is the diametre of the carriers journal that the crownwheel fits over .
Back to the unlocker , the lockers internals are generic with optional outer clutch halfs splined to suit the desired axle . All thats then required is the two piece hemisphere into which the detroits guts fit in on internal splines . So really the only unique parts will be the side clutches and the "hemisphere" casings , the rest should be available through someone like Diff Trans Spares or whatever they're called these days .

The thing I'd like to know is has anyone played with increasing the static pre load on a conventional clutch plate R160 LSD , I've been there with H190 and R200 clutch LSD's and the result was pretty good . I'm not sure if everyone realises that the more torque you put through a convention plate type LSD the more it compresses its plates and the less differential effect it gives . Another factor is that these conventional LSD's in std manufacturers spec are pretty limp because they don't want it to work very well - can you imagine a novice with a well set up one in a car with a bit of stick ? The first time they booted it around a corner in the wet it would tail out and around she goes into that school bus , not a good sales pitch . My R200 slipery was out of a Skyline DR30RS (FJ20 Turbo powered) and it had thick spacers to take up the space normally occupied by from memory 4 sets of active plates in each side of its hemisphere ex Nissan . My favourite Nissan rally mechanic flicked those in favour of the full set of active plates which is either 4 or 5 pairs each side instead of 2 . With 57 lbs of static preload instead of the factory 20odd it worked the way they should instead of the factory spec lets try and prevent Mr Mrs Miss drone killing themselves - LSD still looks good in the glossy spec sheet though .

I lucked out , RX's come with an R160 LSD and if its not doing its job its of to Jacko for the set of plates overhaul .

The 100% perfect "differential" has yet to be built , they are all a compromise with the active electronic controlled ones being good though expensive and complex .

Food for thought , cheers Adrian .

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:46 pm

The perfect differential?

That would be the Electrac. Normally LSD, flick a switch, locked.

Yes, I know they are not available for the R160.

Phizinza · Post by **Phizinza** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 11:43 am

Eaton/Detroit make a LSD/electronic locker I think? Best of both worlds..

I believe there are too many different conditions to have one "perfect" differential.

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:05 pm

Yes thats correct Phizinza. It's called an Electrac.

Phizinza · Post by **Phizinza** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:15 am

Ooops, didn't see your post, sorry.
So, made that phone call yet??

Too Many Rubes · Post by **Too Many Rubes** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:08 pm

The viscous BTR Hydra-trak diff such as in some Commondores and Fowl-cans would be the ideal compromise on a Sooby sized 4wd, if you could fit it. Rangeys used a viscous centre diff for years.

On the subject of auto-lockers (un-lockers), I had a Lok-rite in the back of my Suzy Sierra. It was fine on road and 200% better off road!

Too Many Rubes · Post by **Too Many Rubes** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:30 pm

Apologies to anyone who menioned viscous diffs previously - I skipped a couple of pages.
My Sierra also had a 1.6 16 valve EFI corolla donk in it. With the rear locker it was still fine on-road - barely noticable (apart from the clicking). With half the torque going through it, ie. constant 4wd, it should be even smoother.

Outback bloke · Post by **Outback bloke** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:32 am

I have heard back from this place I have taken the diff to. Price is scary. $2000 is what they came up with. Apparently a lot of the internals that were used when the original was made are no longer available. So that means that more fabrication has to be done.

I will pick the diff up and take it to a different shop and see if the price is any better. I would say that the price we have been given would make it not a viable option.

Is there still enough interest in these diffs for me to keep looking? Can I get 10 people to put their hands up to say yes they will buy one if I can get them for $1500. If I can, then it might give me more bargaining power saying that I will place the order if the answer is yes.

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:09 pm

I will take 2 at $1500.
anyone else?

bluesteel · Post by **bluesteel** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:25 pm

i will take 1 at $1500

fredsub · Post by **fredsub** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:58 am

So the conclusion is that these would be ok with AWD ? but its untested territory.

Also, without being able to lock the centre diff off-road, its really limiting the value of this diff?
How would you go about making the centre diff locakable in say a '98 OBW?
- dual range MT (sorry is that a qik reply or another topic?)

Geez,if I had the L wagon still, you wouldn't be able to hold me back from ordering one!!

Another Q, do what diff ratios you got matter ?