Not flog it per say, just drive it the way subaru keep telling everyone to.
That said, when you do flog the diesel, good lord its fun!!!
2010 Diesel Drivetrain shudder
Not acceptable. The very reason I paid extra for a diesel was to drive it at low revs and ride the torque.skipalami wrote: BTW, Forester Diesel, Your daily round trip should be sufficient to keep the DPF happy (from my experience anyway), just don't lug the engine. Keep the revs high.
At no point during the purchase process were we told you have to rev the tits off it. We were told it's not suitable for lots of stop start traffic, like if you live in inner Sydney. I commute 30km each way to work in Canberra. It's mostly 80kph zones with a few minutes in a 100kph zone each way. In addition, we often do longer trips on the highway (to Cooma, etc) on the weekends.
If this is not sufficient for the car to work properly, then the damn thing isn't fit for purpose. Having said that, over 20,000 kms,we have had the DPF light come on once, for all of five minutes and that was after two weeks of my wife doing a much shorter commute while I was on leave in Jan.
We still get the shudder, even though we are not having DPF issues to my knowledge.
I refuse to accept that the engine must be revved. It is a diesel and they advertise the fact that it has peak torque at 1800-2200rpm and most of that coming on from 1600 rpm. How can they market the car like that and then tell owners not to drive it under 2500 rpm?
Bollocks to that. The engine is NOT labouring up hills at 2000 in sixth. It is in the torque sweet spot. That is where the engine WANTS to be. It's just the tacked on, poorly conceived emissions control system that means you shouldn't drive it like that.
Imagine if Honda produce a Civic Type R with heaps of VTEC power at 8000 rpm but then told owners that they shouldn't rev it past 4000!:mad:
Everything I know applies to Euro4 models, Euro5 might have changes, some hardware parts are definitely different...
Turning engine off stops any regen prematurely. Afterwards, standard soot-level-high condition triggers next active regen.
Continously doing extremely short trips (few minutes) is bad as active regen DPF heat-up (roughly 650°C) takes some time to get soot burn-off going (blue smoke). This way actual regen cannot occur, soot is likely to rise till DPF light comes on steady.
On the plus side, cold DPF means lower exhaust gas flow resistance, delaying trigger point as one equation input is DPF pressure difference sensor. Because of this, I even get higher regen intervals in winter (> 500 km).
Anything above let's say 10 minutes should be ok as my full regens last about 12 minutes according to data logs. So even if it cannot complete, partial regen should drop soot accumulation sufficiently.
There's no dilution sensor on Euro4, as with many things the ECU has to estimate. Maybe ECU software/data has flaws that unveil especially in Australia's conditions...
As I've stated in another thread, do request your ECU software version, it's only a couple of clicks for the mechanic once the diagnostic PC is connected. The most important value is Calibration ID (8 characters).
Can somebody sum up:
Do these DPF and shudder issues only apply to Euro5 models?
Have Euro4 diesel models ever been sold in Australia?
Looks like they don't sell Impreza diesels down there (which do well on German unlimited autobahn sections btw., GPS >200 km/h, airspeed <140 is considered parking...).
Another question to guys having done premature oil change: Has oil dilution >= 10% been measured for real? ECU's guessing algorithm could easily be wrong. In that case, resetting the value without oil change would be fair and it's only a man-minute of work.
The regen counter is only being incremented after full completion. Partial regens won't be remembered/considered. Because of this, actual active regen attempts can be way higher.Ricker wrote:The car has tried to run 18 regens.
Turning engine off stops any regen prematurely. Afterwards, standard soot-level-high condition triggers next active regen.
Continously doing extremely short trips (few minutes) is bad as active regen DPF heat-up (roughly 650°C) takes some time to get soot burn-off going (blue smoke). This way actual regen cannot occur, soot is likely to rise till DPF light comes on steady.
On the plus side, cold DPF means lower exhaust gas flow resistance, delaying trigger point as one equation input is DPF pressure difference sensor. Because of this, I even get higher regen intervals in winter (> 500 km).
Anything above let's say 10 minutes should be ok as my full regens last about 12 minutes according to data logs. So even if it cannot complete, partial regen should drop soot accumulation sufficiently.
On Euro4 models I've looked into, ONE of several conditions to trigger DPF light flashing is "oil dilution greater than or equal 10%". Light can only go out if ECU thinks enough fuel has evaporated for oil dilution dropping below 10% mark.The light may have gone out, because the oil dilution had gone higher than 10% but may now have dropped back just enough for the sensor to not consider it worthy of flashing.
There's no dilution sensor on Euro4, as with many things the ECU has to estimate. Maybe ECU software/data has flaws that unveil especially in Australia's conditions...
As I've stated in another thread, do request your ECU software version, it's only a couple of clicks for the mechanic once the diagnostic PC is connected. The most important value is Calibration ID (8 characters).
Can somebody sum up:
Do these DPF and shudder issues only apply to Euro5 models?
Have Euro4 diesel models ever been sold in Australia?
Looks like they don't sell Impreza diesels down there (which do well on German unlimited autobahn sections btw., GPS >200 km/h, airspeed <140 is considered parking...).
Another question to guys having done premature oil change: Has oil dilution >= 10% been measured for real? ECU's guessing algorithm could easily be wrong. In that case, resetting the value without oil change would be fair and it's only a man-minute of work.
Ouch man! I also wasn't told to drive it like I stole it either....Mess wrote:Not acceptable. The very reason I paid extra for a diesel was to drive it at low revs and ride the torque.
At no point during the purchase process were we told you have to rev the tits off it. We were told it's not suitable for lots of stop start traffic, like if you live in inner Sydney. I commute 30km each way to work in Canberra. It's mostly 80kph zones with a few minutes in a 100kph zone each way. In addition, we often do longer trips on the highway (to Cooma, etc) on the weekends.
If this is not sufficient for the car to work properly, then the damn thing isn't fit for purpose. Having said that, over 20,000 kms,we have had the DPF light come on once, for all of five minutes and that was after two weeks of my wife doing a much shorter commute while I was on leave in Jan.
We still get the shudder, even though we are not having DPF issues to my knowledge.
I refuse to accept that the engine must be revved. It is a diesel and they advertise the fact that it has peak torque at 1800-2200rpm and most of that coming on from 1600 rpm. How can they market the car like that and then tell owners not to drive it under 2500 rpm?
Bollocks to that. The engine is NOT labouring up hills at 2000 in sixth. It is in the torque sweet spot. That is where the engine WANTS to be. It's just the tacked on, poorly conceived emissions control system that means you shouldn't drive it like that.
Imagine if Honda produce a Civic Type R with heaps of VTEC power at 8000 rpm but then told owners that they shouldn't rev it past 4000!:mad:
My response was more related to the problems Ricker was having, specifically short duration trips, which through your own admission you were also told. Your commuting appears to have also afforded you the pleasure of not having the DPF light cycling On and Off like christmas light.
I never stated that Reving the car higher would stop the shudder, what it does do (like it or not) is reduce the need for the car to perform active regeneration because the exhaust temperature is higher at higher continuous revs, thus avoiding Rickers problem. That is just how diesels work, full stop. I am startng to be of the opinion that the Shudder and DPF are no related, the DPF is just an easy target to blame by both sides.
Now to avoid the shudder, which is around 2000 rpm as we all know, I can either drive the car at 1500rpm where it is a pig, or 2500 where it is a little bit more fun with only a small impact on my fuel economy. I knew from the moment I test drove this car and from various reviews that this engine was lacking torque below 2000rpm. Who cares why, its just the way things were and I still purchased the car.
I am wedded to this car for 4 years through a lease, so I will be stuffed if I am going to drive it around like my Dad and make my life miserable. Shudder aside, I am enjoying this car. I just cant see the point in fighting with the car, so I am going to go with what the car seems to enjoy and have some of my own fun along the way.
Good info from everyone, so thanks for all chipping in your thoughts. If anything it makes me feel better knowing I have a support network on these issues.
In regards to a couple of points:
The foreman who plugged in the computer showed me all the data on the screen. The comp said DPF regenerations: the foreman felt certain this meant attempted and not fully completed regens. From my driving I reckon it's prob completed cause I feel it has done a regen every day and that would be like 57 then.
I really do not want to get rid of the car as I love the torque, the way it drives, it's look with the scoop etc. I'm not sure I could enjoy a normal petrol.
I feel like they should invent a system where u can push a button and tell the caf to run a regen. There should be a ash build up percentage displayed with 3 warning stages and then it's down to the owner to run them. Otherwise make a manual and auto option in regards to regen. This would allow a short distance commuter to choose when they run a regen allowing them to do it well and reduce pointless interrupted regens which cause oil dilution. Will this happen... Wish I could influence Subaru but sadly no. If only we could tap into the software and change it to how we like. If anyone knows someone let me know
In regards to a couple of points:
The foreman who plugged in the computer showed me all the data on the screen. The comp said DPF regenerations: the foreman felt certain this meant attempted and not fully completed regens. From my driving I reckon it's prob completed cause I feel it has done a regen every day and that would be like 57 then.
I really do not want to get rid of the car as I love the torque, the way it drives, it's look with the scoop etc. I'm not sure I could enjoy a normal petrol.
I feel like they should invent a system where u can push a button and tell the caf to run a regen. There should be a ash build up percentage displayed with 3 warning stages and then it's down to the owner to run them. Otherwise make a manual and auto option in regards to regen. This would allow a short distance commuter to choose when they run a regen allowing them to do it well and reduce pointless interrupted regens which cause oil dilution. Will this happen... Wish I could influence Subaru but sadly no. If only we could tap into the software and change it to how we like. If anyone knows someone let me know
Oh any by the way, I absolutely flog the car more than everyone. Every gear shift from 1st-3rd is above 3k revs and then I mostly cruise in 4th around suburbs or 5th if I hit a 100km/h. I'm a very spirited driver who would love to get the car tuned to allow it to perform even more.
Whether these oil dilution issues and DPF issues will allow me to do this is another thing.
Very interesting comment Subdiesel, in regards to whether the oil dilution is actually at 10% or whether the car's algorithm is just saying it must be due to the amount of regens teh car has performed. You've inspired me to keep the car another oil change at least, and then send my oil of for testing to see if it is indeed diluted to 10%. I just feel like i'd be coping to much of a loss by getting rid of the car.
Anyhow i'll keep you all posted in regards to what the outcome is. I believe I'll be changing the oil this time round, and getting the Subaru forman to reset the counter for me, so that its a cheap oil change.
Whether these oil dilution issues and DPF issues will allow me to do this is another thing.
Very interesting comment Subdiesel, in regards to whether the oil dilution is actually at 10% or whether the car's algorithm is just saying it must be due to the amount of regens teh car has performed. You've inspired me to keep the car another oil change at least, and then send my oil of for testing to see if it is indeed diluted to 10%. I just feel like i'd be coping to much of a loss by getting rid of the car.
Anyhow i'll keep you all posted in regards to what the outcome is. I believe I'll be changing the oil this time round, and getting the Subaru forman to reset the counter for me, so that its a cheap oil change.
In regards to these comments. Do you think that Euro5 has a sensor for oil dilution, as how else would the sensor stop flashing after 1 day?subdiesel wrote: There's no dilution sensor on Euro4, as with many things the ECU has to estimate. Maybe ECU software/data has flaws that unveil especially in Australia's conditions...
As I've stated in another thread, do request your ECU software version, it's only a couple of clicks for the mechanic once the diagnostic PC is connected. The most important value is Calibration ID (8 characters).
Secondly what is the reason for knowing the ECU software version, what can I do with that 9 charachter Calibration ID value?
Thirdly is there an easy way to test oil for oil dilution besides getting it sent of for a costly oil anaylsis. And if not, does anyone know a place I can send it to, and with a rough idea on cost?
Thanks everyone! been a real help
Ricker, i saw a website in the UK where you can get the Scooby Diesels rechipped to improve the torque curve from the factory one. I cant remember the web address though.Ricker wrote:Wish I could influence Subaru but sadly no. If only we could tap into the software and change it to how we like. If anyone knows someone let me know
My comments weren't directed at you Skip, more at Subaru for selling a diesel that, to me, feels comfortable in the 1600-2500 rpm range and then telling people to keep up above 2500rpm.
I think it's a cop out as the dpf has issues. I agree that the shudder and DPF are probably unrelated as I get the shudder plenty, even going up moderate inclines in 5th at 100kph. That's over 2000rpm. I got the shudder today in exactly that situation. That was on the return leg of a trip to the inlaws on the other side of Canberra. The trip is pretty much all 80 and 100 zones so the DPF should have been sparkling!
Anyway, shudder aside, I enjoy the car. I average about 7l per 100km. I do use 6th at 80kph, but only when cruising on the flat. I enjoy the torque and if I'm not in a hurry it drives perfectly well when I up change at 2000rpm.
I think it's a cop out as the dpf has issues. I agree that the shudder and DPF are probably unrelated as I get the shudder plenty, even going up moderate inclines in 5th at 100kph. That's over 2000rpm. I got the shudder today in exactly that situation. That was on the return leg of a trip to the inlaws on the other side of Canberra. The trip is pretty much all 80 and 100 zones so the DPF should have been sparkling!
Anyway, shudder aside, I enjoy the car. I average about 7l per 100km. I do use 6th at 80kph, but only when cruising on the flat. I enjoy the torque and if I'm not in a hurry it drives perfectly well when I up change at 2000rpm.
Mess, It did feel good to vent a little though. I think everyone here who has forked out $40000+ and in some cases $50000+ for a car is entitled to get steamed up at below par performance, particularly for a Subaru.
My shudder has migrated to level ground now and down to 3rd gear on some occasions. Driving with a heavy foot helps keep the shudders to a minimum but doesn't aleviate them completely.
My shudder has migrated to level ground now and down to 3rd gear on some occasions. Driving with a heavy foot helps keep the shudders to a minimum but doesn't aleviate them completely.
Unfortunately, oil dilution sensor is rather unlikely, no signs at all. Technology and patents do exist though.Ricker wrote:Do you think that Euro5 has a sensor for oil dilution, as how else would the sensor stop flashing after 1 day?
AFAIK (low) oil level (warning) switch plus VGT (turbo vanes) position sensor has been added in recent years.
Adding sensors means additional costs, software changes (has to cope with sensor faults, too), could decrease overal reliability etc.
As mentioned, diesel fuel partially evaporates from engine oil over time. I think I've seen a map where ECU looks up evaporation factor or something, based on temps and s..tuff. On my car oil dilution varies up and down for sure.
Yes, dealer software tells something like DPF Regen Counts. Even its help function does not tell underlying details.
There are plenty of Euro4 drivers using on-board data display+logging. That way mentioned behavior is very certain.
As you'd imagine, FHI/Denso won't rewrite engine management software from scratch going to next emission standards.
Engine control software is THE one and only BRAIN. These days you can't just crank the engine to get it going as all the actuators, relays, valves, injector solenoids etc. are driven by ECU software only. There's no fixed backup circuit or anything.
Because of this, software version is very important. Think of it like PC operating system plus huge complicated app. Different software can result in different behavior. Sometimes there are multiple software upgrades per year.
If you wan't to deal with issues, you've got to know what version you have. Another version might not have the same issues... Like if there's something bad in software v1.5 it may not apply to v1.6.
Have a look at RomRaider forums - tons of Calibration IDs (or ECUIDs as they call it) all over the place.
There's plenty of petrol ROM (dumped ECU software) files to download and inspect, also some Euro4 diesel ROMs, if someone wants to delve into. Be warned - determining logic out of CPU instructions is huge amount of work.
Couple of words regarding to tuners: Yes, they've got PC software that can read and write to ECU. But it ain't rocket science to adjust some data table content in order to get more fuel injected. Requires little ECU logic knowledge. Don't expect tuning personnel to read, understand and fix complex software logic.
Looked up some saved data:
Snapshot 1: parked, DPF pretty much full, AFAIK no DPF attempt yet (usually starts at 65+ % soot)
Snapshot 2: after successful compulsory DPF regen (can only be done while parking, own special software hack) incl. roughly 15 mins idling afterwards
Soot Accumulation Ratio: 62.18098 -> 21.81406 %
Oil Dilution Amount: 0.2563731 -> 0.2664479 kg (+0.0100748 kg)
Oil Dilution Ratio: 4.180223 -> 4.344495 % (+0.164272 %)
(ratio is just simple math, confirmed twice: oil dilution amount [kg] / 6.133 kg * 100 = oil dilution ratio [%] Also see "estimated distance to oil change" math + graph: http://subdiesel.wordpress.com/2010/10/ ... il-change/ )
Fuel Tank Level: 34.79268 -> 33.97826 liter (-0.81442 liter) (as usual don't assume high accuracy)
Distance after last regeneration: 648.8789 -> 0 km
DPF regeneration counts: X -> X+1
Snapshot 3: after couple minutes additional idling, I got -0.007898 % oil dilution ratio vs. state 2, ECU did estimate some evaporation already.
By the way, in compulsory DPF regen mode, ECU first revs 2700 rpm, couple minutes later 2600 till completion, back to standard 800. Seems like these rpms are good for heating up DPF including fuel post-injection. Remember, this is just maintenance operation while standing still. Personally I mostly use 1500-2500 rpm for daily driving, having no DPF troubles whatsoever (other than wasted fuel and increased turbo lag when a regen occurs).
Hey mate, thanks for the post. Couple of questions.subdiesel wrote:
Snapshot 3: after couple minutes additional idling, I got -0.007898 % oil dilution ratio vs. state 2, ECU did estimate some evaporation already.
By the way, in compulsory DPF regen mode, ECU first revs 2700 rpm, couple minutes later 2600 till completion, back to standard 800. Seems like these rpms are good for heating up DPF including fuel post-injection. Remember, this is just maintenance operation while standing still. Personally I mostly use 1500-2500 rpm for daily driving, having no DPF troubles whatsoever (other than wasted fuel and increased turbo lag when a regen occurs).
What's going on in snapshot 3? The car calculated a small loss from diesel evaporation due to idling?
Secondly how useful would it be for me to buy some equipment that let's me log data like this. How hard is it to do, and what can I do with the data besides confirm that indeed I have to go fork out more money every 2 months because I have to change my oil due to oil dilution
I'm still struggling to work out whether when I move house whether the extra 5km-8km that will get added to my trip each way to work will be enough to allow for less frequent regens resulting in a longer period between oil changes.
I really want to keep the car cause I like it alot, but I want to resolve this very fast oil dilution. I do a long 300-400km run at least every second weekend. So that should be sufficient to clear a DPF, so I don't need the car to try clear it during my weeks short trips, that's just going to cause me to interrupt a regen and increase oil dilution.
Well any thoughts on what I'd need to buy and what software etc to use for logging would be appreciated.
'Shudder' Problem
Hi All,
My wife and I purchased our 2010 Diesel Forester late last year. Unfortunately, we are experiencing the same shudder problem as others. The amount of posts I am reading on online forums is pretty concerning the say the least. Here's what we are experiencing: shudder develops in 5th or 6th gear always between 2000-2500 rpm. The shudder occurs not only on inclines, but on flat open roads! The 'shudder' problem didn't surface until approx' 10500km. We live in the country, so the bulk of our driving is at higher revs and higher speeds. The shudder problem has not occured in 4th (yet). My service centre originally tried to tell me that I was using an incorrect gear (too high) - rubbish!
Our vehicle has been at the service centre for nearly 5 weeks, and they still can't tell me what is the cause of the shudder. They have told me that they are investigating the EGR valve and DPF components. Do others believe the accumulation of carbon/soot is the cause (starving the engine of O2)? I would be interested in seeing what explanations other owners have been given from their dealer! In fairness, our service centre has been very good in providing my wife with a loan car and providing feedback as to what types of action they are taking. My issue isn't with them - my issue is with Subaru!
The mechainic advised me to drive the car above 2000rpm (which is how I drive anyway) - infact he told me that optimum performance is achieved in this rev range. However, it is in this range that the shudder occurs! At 100km/hr in 5th our car is revving a touch over 2000rpm. I do not accept that the car is labouring when driving up an incline as the engine feels as though there is plenty to give, but as soon the shudder starts the only way to stop it is to back off and drop back to 4th. They have also tried to tell me that they are not aware of other Forester's/Outback's having this issue - I find that very hard to believe given the amount of complaints I have read online. My service centre has advised me to contact Subaru Australia (which I will be doing) to lodge a complaint. Are other owners doing this? I suspect that only until Subaru receive a mountain of complaints from very unhappy diesel customers will they actually get serious about this problem! Would other unhappy diesel owners be interested in lodging a group complaint to Subaru Australia? - just a thought.
My wife and I purchased our 2010 Diesel Forester late last year. Unfortunately, we are experiencing the same shudder problem as others. The amount of posts I am reading on online forums is pretty concerning the say the least. Here's what we are experiencing: shudder develops in 5th or 6th gear always between 2000-2500 rpm. The shudder occurs not only on inclines, but on flat open roads! The 'shudder' problem didn't surface until approx' 10500km. We live in the country, so the bulk of our driving is at higher revs and higher speeds. The shudder problem has not occured in 4th (yet). My service centre originally tried to tell me that I was using an incorrect gear (too high) - rubbish!
Our vehicle has been at the service centre for nearly 5 weeks, and they still can't tell me what is the cause of the shudder. They have told me that they are investigating the EGR valve and DPF components. Do others believe the accumulation of carbon/soot is the cause (starving the engine of O2)? I would be interested in seeing what explanations other owners have been given from their dealer! In fairness, our service centre has been very good in providing my wife with a loan car and providing feedback as to what types of action they are taking. My issue isn't with them - my issue is with Subaru!
The mechainic advised me to drive the car above 2000rpm (which is how I drive anyway) - infact he told me that optimum performance is achieved in this rev range. However, it is in this range that the shudder occurs! At 100km/hr in 5th our car is revving a touch over 2000rpm. I do not accept that the car is labouring when driving up an incline as the engine feels as though there is plenty to give, but as soon the shudder starts the only way to stop it is to back off and drop back to 4th. They have also tried to tell me that they are not aware of other Forester's/Outback's having this issue - I find that very hard to believe given the amount of complaints I have read online. My service centre has advised me to contact Subaru Australia (which I will be doing) to lodge a complaint. Are other owners doing this? I suspect that only until Subaru receive a mountain of complaints from very unhappy diesel customers will they actually get serious about this problem! Would other unhappy diesel owners be interested in lodging a group complaint to Subaru Australia? - just a thought.
I sent email to Subaru with complaint, thier generic response was it was a DPF regen and that I should drive the car at higher revs and select the right gear. I think this is not acceptable for a car that is less than 6 months old... and having shudders since 4000km. I think we have enough spread from country to city and all round to take this issue to Subaru... Please all lets get writting our complaints to Subaru.
Tiern09, you might as well go and pick up your car and enjoy it a little as there is no short term fix to the problem. Fuji Heavy are aware of the problem as are Subaru Aust. and they are trying to fix it, its just taking a long time. I'm sure the Japan Earthquake hasn't helped them any either.Tiern09 wrote: Our vehicle has been at the service centre for nearly 5 weeks, and they still can't tell me what is the cause of the shudder.
BTW, your description of the problem is a carbon copy of so many other peoples experiences captured right here in this thread.
Yeah i tried it. I even showed it to them and its clear they didnt look at it. The fault, when the service inspection was booked, was the typical symptoms of a shudder, however when i picked it up and asked them to explain what they had looked for, they just looked for a problem with the tacho.... i can see now how simplistic these guys work.... take one small piece of a detailed description: i was far from happy. To top it off the guy looked like Homer Simpson (face and body!) so i had written him off due to him too many donuts! He said as far as he was concerned the computer didnt say there was a problem so its not possible their could be one.Doubtback wrote:Well today I took the vehicle in for it's 25,000k service and took a copy of this thread(BIG mistake - anyone else tried it ?).
They did say they would make a mention to the dealer service rep when he visits..... i doubt it.
Open source data logging on Euro5 is not supported due to lack of tech savvy people investigating. Euro5 might require CAN while Euro4 is working fine over both (cheap) serial and CAN connection.
I, too, would be very disappointed receiving ignorance style treatment from dealerships. Good ones are the opposite.
After all, high reliability and customer satisfaction #1 are their top advertising points in Europe.
Even if they cannot not fix it yet, they should admit the problem. They've had plenty of time to gather data by now. Mechanics can record and look at roughly 100-200 engine data parameters. FHI/Denso can look at thousands of ECU internal variables. At least me and others can do that on Euro4 using open source software and OBD cable. There's got to be something off-normal when a shudder occurs. Same with oil dilution issue.
Anyone knows if they've looked at things like "VDC torque down" signal? VDC/ABS control unit sends such data via CAN to ECU so source could even be non-engine related.
Btw, on flat low speed roads I often cruise 1400 rpm in 4th, making real (GPS/OBDII) 50-55 km/h (speedo below 60), cruise control active.
All values are low - injection amount, engine load, manifold air pressure, torque, fuel consumption, soot accumulation - so I figure the engine is quite happy. Going uphill and to accelerate I use 3rd of course although it can do it in 4th easily (mentioned values rising but plenty of room till max), too.
I, too, would be very disappointed receiving ignorance style treatment from dealerships. Good ones are the opposite.
After all, high reliability and customer satisfaction #1 are their top advertising points in Europe.
Even if they cannot not fix it yet, they should admit the problem. They've had plenty of time to gather data by now. Mechanics can record and look at roughly 100-200 engine data parameters. FHI/Denso can look at thousands of ECU internal variables. At least me and others can do that on Euro4 using open source software and OBD cable. There's got to be something off-normal when a shudder occurs. Same with oil dilution issue.
Anyone knows if they've looked at things like "VDC torque down" signal? VDC/ABS control unit sends such data via CAN to ECU so source could even be non-engine related.
Yeah right, tell me about it... As if they've got that kind of electronics personnel. Combination meter has its own computer, reads most data from CAN-bus. AFAIK dealer software cannot connect to combination meter at all.they just looked for a problem with the tacho....
Btw, on flat low speed roads I often cruise 1400 rpm in 4th, making real (GPS/OBDII) 50-55 km/h (speedo below 60), cruise control active.
All values are low - injection amount, engine load, manifold air pressure, torque, fuel consumption, soot accumulation - so I figure the engine is quite happy. Going uphill and to accelerate I use 3rd of course although it can do it in 4th easily (mentioned values rising but plenty of room till max), too.
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steptoe
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Does the DPF burn off process continue when the gears are swapped back to get higher revs?
Sounds like the driver needs a warning that DPF burn off is about to occur in one minute so no go do any overtaking, or be programmed not to conduct a burn off unless revs are at constant 3,000 rpm and driver gives the go ahead with a button press
Sounds like the driver needs a warning that DPF burn off is about to occur in one minute so no go do any overtaking, or be programmed not to conduct a burn off unless revs are at constant 3,000 rpm and driver gives the go ahead with a button press
Couldn't agree more, I bought this car with retirment in mind and expect to have around 75000 at end of lease on it in about 28 months time as it is now I'm not sure I want to keep it that long. Currently has 17000 on it and has been back to the dealer 3 times with this problem since the 12500 service.skipalami wrote:Mess, It did feel good to vent a little though. I think everyone here who has forked out $40000+ and in some cases $50000+ for a car is entitled to get steamed up at below par performance, particularly for a Subaru.
My shudder has migrated to level ground now and down to 3rd gear on some occasions. Driving with a heavy foot helps keep the shudders to a minimum but doesn't aleviate them completely.
If I drive in 5th at a steady 1500 rpm I have no problems and can accelerate through the problem range with no problem but there is no way you can drive at a steady 2000 rpm in anything above and including 3rd.
Once shudder sets in I have to change to a point where I am well above the magic 2200.
In my other car 7500 in 3rd equates to the best part of 200Kph with cogs to go and it will pull cleanly from almost idle in 5th and cruise at any revs this car is for fun and this is certainly not how I expect to have to drive a modern diesel. 1.8L naturally aspirated ADR 79-02 petrol engine.
Not happy Subaru, this is my 3rd and quite possibly very short lived last maybe a Hyundai or Kia might be better value and maybe I should have bought a Tiguan like I was going to.