2010 Diesel Drivetrain shudder

skipalami · Post by **skipalami** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:43 am

I am as mad as hell today. I drove my car up the mountains last night and stupid thing nearly shook my eyeballs out of my head most of the way. And it even did it in 3rd Gear:mad:

It was absolutely chronic and without doubt the worst it has ever been.

I am really disappointed to see that the EGR valve didn't solve the problem. I was really hoping that the problem had been nailed. Interestingly I found an article the other day talking about the changes between the Euro 4 and Euro 5 engines. Since the Euro 4 owners in Europe where it was first released don't seem to suffer the shudder, I suspect it is either fuel quality or one of the design changes they made before the released the Euro 5 to Australia.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:59 pm

on the oil front, I did post in here some time ago on the new product that is around to give your car, or prospective car, a health check by dropping some engine oil on test pads, six in a packet I think? Designed to give you a better indication to engine condition based on its oil - better than just a look and a sniff.

ForesterDiesel · Post by **ForesterDiesel** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:40 pm

Hi again,

Does anyone have sales figures for the Diesel Forester? I can't find any.

I know in comparison to petrol the figure is low. There are a 'reasonable' number of people here with the problem, but are they 80% of Diesel Forester owners or 2%?

I'm trying to see how wide spread the problem is before I try and buy one this weekend.

Thanks.

skipalami · Post by **skipalami** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:55 pm

I have a 2010 Outback.

littlewhiteute · Post by **littlewhiteute** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:02 pm

GTlegs wrote:So, can you guys please confirm that this issue relates to manual diesel cars only?

I am looking at a petrol 4 cyl CVT car at the moment and want to tmake sure it does not have this issue.

It is definitely only common rail electronic diesel and more than likely only manual trans.

The shudder is a programming issue that Subaru is unable to answer at the moment.

No other diesel with DPFs that I've worked on has this issue.

Ricker · Post by **Ricker** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:29 pm

I have never experienced the shudder. But by goodness I've experienced about 10-12 regens in the 2800km the car has done now. Its crazy how many it seems to need to do.

MY11OBD · Post by **MY11OBD** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:25 pm

Did my 12500km service today and told Subaru Docklands my Shudder issue. They said they need the car in for a full day to test it and suspect the EGR valve or something.

I have booked in next week so will update on the progress.

I have noticed the car is alot louder now, can hear the turbo and engine more since the service, not sure of anything was done.

Will update more soon...

pitrack_1 · Post by **pitrack_1** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:34 am

MY11OBD wrote:Did my 12500km service today and told Subaru Docklands my Shudder issue. They said they need the car in for a full day to test it and suspect the EGR valve or something.

Note my post #97 in this thread- a mate had an EGR replaced for this problem, to no effect.

skipalami · Post by **skipalami** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:23 am

I think I have uncovered a new shudder symptom.

Level road, no interuption to traffic flow, 4th, 5th or 6th gear, 2000rpm +/- 200, foot hardly on the accelerator. In other words, to maintain speed, I am just feathering the pedal.

If I can hold the same small throttle position for a prolonged period of time, I can feel the shudder starting to come on. If I hold it long enough, it will turn into a full blown shudder. Usual action required to clear the shudder.

If the car was a petrol engine, I would have checked the plug leads because it feels like I am missing a cylinder. That is truley what it felt like. Now to my understanding, there are only a couple of ways to get a misfire in a diesel. Wrong fuel air mix, fuel blockare, insufficient cylinder compression, insufficient heat or in this case I believe, software. Diesel Mechanics, are there any others I have missed?

In for 12500 service on friday. I will give the techs this symptom update.

MY11OBD · Post by **MY11OBD** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:15 pm

Shudder happend today one day after service. it seems mu shudder experience happens when sloe to traffic around 2000 rpm. I get off the accelerator and then back on it after a split second and shudder occurs. Has anyone written to subaru? I have and the reponse is generic you are not reving enough. or engine is doing DPF clean... not good enough I think...

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:38 pm

are they shuddering because they are too rich at the momemnt for the burn off?

Ricker · Post by **Ricker** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:20 pm

My DPF light came in flashing today after 3000km's in 57 days of driving. That represents oil dilution issues yes? I guess I will have to phone my dealer tomorrow. What should I be expecting as an outcome. There is no way I'm paying for anything after just buying a brand new car and having issues like this before even 2 months. I'm gonna pop if they even suggest paying a cent! There is no way this isn't bullshit to have issues before 2 months in. My avg a day by figures is 60km! The car is throwing to many regens because I'm doing low km's. But I care not as I don't believe they can create a car that can't drive in any conditions and sell it to people with no warnings that it can't.

What you guys think

pjtaylor3 · Post by **pjtaylor3** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:43 am

Is it possible that the shudder comes on when the engine is in a regen cycle when labouring up a hill in 6th gear. It seems it has no power when this shudder occurs but for me it happens on the same hill but very randomly

Mountainman · Post by **Mountainman** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:50 pm

ForesterDiesel wrote:Hi again,

Does anyone have sales figures for the Diesel Forester? I can't find any.

Between 300-400 a month.

Ricker · Post by **Ricker** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:49 pm

Ok, so I have been driving with the flashing DPF light for a day, and suddendly on the way home after having had a serious conversation with Subaru about the problem, the light just went out?

So now i've had a solid DPF light which lasted a km and then went out. And now i've had a flashing DPF light which came on flashing (i.e oil dilution issues) and has now gone out after a day?

What the heck is going on with this car...

ForesterDiesel · Post by **ForesterDiesel** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:08 pm

Mountainman wrote:Between 300-400 a month.

Thanks - so there are a decent number of Suby diesels on the road. I'm now telling myself that this problem surely mustn't be THAT too spread, otherwise there would be many more people coming onto here and yelling about it.

I'm convincing myself of this..... as I pick up my diesel Forester on Saturday

Subyroo · Post by **Subyroo** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:28 pm

ForesterDiesel wrote:Thanks - so there are a decent number of Suby diesels on the road. I'm now telling myself that this problem surely mustn't be THAT too spread, otherwise there would be many more people coming onto here and yelling about it.

I'm convincing myself of this..... as I pick up my diesel Forester on Saturday

ForesterDiesel;164617 other owners will only come on here and complain if they search for an answer to their problem and Google or whoever points them in this direction, even then they may choose to just Bookmark the thread then watch & wait for somebody else to come up with the answer.

In other words a lot of if's and maybe's, either way this problem is not looking good for either Subaru or the owners.

Ricker · Post by **Ricker** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:40 am

ForesterDiesel wrote: I'm convincing myself of this..... as I pick up my diesel Forester on Saturday

Can I suggest you do not do this! Use the buyers cooling off period and run whilst you can!

Update on my Diesel forester situation

Well I took it down to Subaru service department today. They plugged the computer in, and over the 58 days I have owned the car now.
The car has tried to run 18 regens.
My DPF level was 54%
My oil dilution was 10%.

The light may have gone out, because the oil dilution had gone higher than 10% but may now have dropped back just enough for the sensor to not consider it worthy of flashing. But at 10% extra wear is being made on the engine.

So now I have got the subaru service center to log a report in regards to their findings. And I have phone customer relations at Subaru Australia to see if this can be considered under warranty (that being that I now need an oil change at 58 days of owning the car even with 3100km on the clock, or an avg of 55km/s a day).
The subaru customer relations representative seemed to think that I was doing fairly normal km's if i'm doing long drives on the weekend and short drives during the week.
But they personally think, it should come back to the dealer who should of better informed the customer (me) as to what car is suitable and not suitable for my driving habits.
On this point I believe, I have not been correctly informed and would have never purchased the car if I had a been properly informed about the DPF regens, the fact that it will dilute the oil in my car etc when doing excessive short trips etc.

Subaru Australia sent out a Diesel Supplement memo to all dealers outlining the driving conditions required for Diesel foresters etc. I believe that the dealer has not correctly informed me in regards to these conditions, and as a customer buying a new car from a Subaru dealer, I expect for them to help me to choose a car suitable for me. That is the purpose of having a salesperson no?

If this gets anymore crazy, I will indeed be taking this down the path of consumer affairs and lodging a case.

To me, all I wanted was a car that can be driven wherever I please for however long i please. And only require the normal (but frequent) 6 month servicing. I find it completely unacceptable to have to change the oil on a car every 2 months (6 oil changes a year) regardless of driving style.

skipalami · Post by **skipalami** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:27 am

ForesterDiesel wrote: I'm convincing myself of this..... as I pick up my diesel Forester on Saturday

When the Diesel is behaving itself, it is an awsome vehicle. My car is in today for the 12500km service. No DPF lights so far, however I do 160km/day return to and from work. Excesive active regens will cause oil dilution.

I have found I will hold 4th gear up to 100km/h with little to no effect on fuel economy. I will only generally use 5th over 100 km/h. 6th gear just looks nice on the gear knob.

The higher RPM will increase your exaust temperature and help the passive regen process reducing the risk of oil dilution. Vehicle load will also raise the exhaust temperature, which is why in undulating country driving this car is a dream.

This car truly does require a different driving style, but you do get used to it. Just ignore the gear change indicator on the dash and change gears at a higher RPM.

The shudder issue itself will be solved, one way or another.

BTW, Forester Diesel, Your daily round trip should be sufficient to keep the DPF happy (from my experience anyway), just don't lug the engine. Keep the revs high.

Subyroo · Post by **Subyroo** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:13 pm

skipalami wrote:just don't lug the engine. Keep the revs high.

Are you saying he should flog it?