Am I Kidding Myself??

SuBaRiNo · Post by **SuBaRiNo** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:36 pm

Trans fluid changed. The old fluid was a dark brown when removed. Pulled the pan also to check for any metal damage. All looked good and surprising looked brand new in there... re-sealed and replaced the pan and replaced the Auto-trans filter and fluid.

Gear box now kicks down as it should and seams to change through the gears better.. although a slugish surge when accelerating is still there. This was diagnosed as a slip in the box previously.

So i still could have a busted gear box but now it's time to get the motor right and see if that clears up the box problem. Engine problem currently is a throttle lag or flat spot off idle and a lack of power... i would estimate it's running at about half pace at this stage.

Thought it was worth trying some of that Subaru upper engine cleaner. Now this was odd.. put the cleaner through it as per the instructions and as per i did it on the hatch 5 minutes before this car, and i get no smoke at all. Anyone that has done this would tell u it usually makes a big smoke cloud but i got nothing. Not sure what to make of that.

This TGV valve is still a huge possibility and when we get to do that i want to get the injectors serviced just the rule them out... also the fuel pump has yet to be checked.

Dave

Post by **TOONGA** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:56 pm

thats good to hear about the box now get a tin of transmission conditioner and put that in there as well and if you are confident enough adjust the band (after you have run the box with the new oil in it for a week)

and truely unless the box isn't changing gears and will only select reverse then it should still be ok Im impressed by the internal strength of the subaru automatic transmission

TOONGA

SuBaRiNo · Post by **SuBaRiNo** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:27 pm

They sound like promissing words... i will wait until this engine thing is sorted next before i do anything else on the box. I don't actually think i have to do anything with the bands but i really have to see how it feels when the motor is sorted... nothing feels right in it at the moment.

Currently im doing a lot of reading on these TGV valves. I just wish my engine light was on so then i could be more sure on the problem.

Dave

Dave

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:56 pm

If you take the TVG servo off, you should have access to the shaft, which means you could turn it by hand and leave it manually open. Easy way to test it without removing the manifold

SuBaRiNo · Post by **SuBaRiNo** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:07 pm

Would this alow me to start and run the car for a quick drive around the block?

I thought the motor actually seals onto the manifold there but maybe im wrong.

This suggestion would be good to check to make sure the butterflys are not seized closed though.

During my research into this i am slightly confused that there is no easier way to jam these butterflys open by doing something to the motor.

Dave

Abaddon · Post by **Abaddon** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:33 pm

There's something very wrong with your engine. The engine does not need to be removed and replaced, but you'd be looking at maybe 2-3K to fix what is probably a gasket problem. Hopefully less (it might be electrical, or air leak, etc etc)

Really, it sounds to me like your GT has not been given the service attention, and now it's you problem. Been there. NOT cool. Where/who'd you but it from??

SuBaRiNo · Post by **SuBaRiNo** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:55 pm

Im going to avoid argument here and just simply answer your questions.

Car has full un-missed service history and all services have actually been conducted by a subaru dealer since new (I have all the receipts and stamped log book to prove it).

If there is a service problem then it is because the mechanics at Subaru don't know what they are doing. Even the service i got done 6 months ago i did not take into my own hands and payed almost $2000 for a complete service including timing belt.

Car was purchased from a wholesale car yard.

Dave

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:13 am

Not sure if bands on these modern boxes are adjustable - they are not on the Falcon and Commodores from what I remember.

Keep an eye on changes of colour in the tranny as the converter fluid mixes in with the new fluid.

When you get this sorted I am sure your expectations of power will be realised. I do recall quite clearly me chasing a similar year Foz up a few country roads at speeds not mentioning in here in a Ford that was only three seconds slower than a GT XY around Amaroo in its day. The Foz won my respect

Abaddon · Post by **Abaddon** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:18 am

fair nuff then!!

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:39 am

The first generation of auto gearboxes have one adjustable reverse brake band. The second generation boxes (you can tell by the external oil filter) dont, its done by the computer.

Yours should be a 2nd generation box

The fact that your oil is brown suggests that the gearbox oil needed changing, and was possibly causing some of your issues.

Yes you should be able to drive around the block, but im not sure if it will make it hard to realign the motor on the shaft when you go to refit it

Post by **TOONGA** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:23 am

yes after frantically searching through the manuals I have, the generation II box has no band adjustment that I can see externally and there is no reference to it either. I did find a brake valve reference which is acessable inside the pan it could be adjustable (probably not

)

the removal of the TGV valves doesn't entail engine removal, only the manifold needs to be removed then the TGV valves are removed and the manifold is put back on the engine. the omods page has a very detailed (haynes-esque) how to do the biggest problem I could see doing this is the little screws holding on the butterflys once they are in place it is normally very difficult to remove them

if the motors were jammed into position the ECU would continuously throw a code stating that the TGV valve was jammed open, so the red light on the dash would be a constant companion

according to the manual the turbo box needs 9.2- 9.6 litres of fluid not 8.5 (sorry) so if there is slip still it could be caused by low fluid level (Im sure you know how to do a service but Im making sure just call me granpa worry)
If you really want the engine to throw a code for the TGV unplug a sensor or engine while the engine is running (not recomended) or try starting with said part unplugged the ECU should become very unhappy quickly

the more I read about these TGV valves the more I think big business put them into play to generate work for the service technicians

If I ever buy a Subaru manufactured after 1998 the first thing it will get is TGV deletes

TOONGA

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:01 am

You are right, if the TGV valve was in the incorrect position, the ECU should throw a code.

But if the ECU isnt getting the signal to know the conditions to open the TGV valve.

The TGV articulator is only a 2 wire device, so it should be easy to test.

Grab a multimeter (on 20v setting) and place it in the cabin, run 2 wires to the engine bay and piggy back them into the 2 wires going to the TGV. This way you can see if the ECU is telling the TGV to open

SuBaRiNo · Post by **SuBaRiNo** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:20 am

I got 8L of fluid into the box and now it's a little above full... i have been keeping my eye on it to see if it would drop anymore but nothing yet.

I would probably be looking at doing another fluid swap in a few weeks just to get the rest of the old shit out. Maybe i should invest in an even larger cooler too. (and yes space it out a bit like u have suggested Paul)

I have actually started the car with the TGV unplugged... back when i was trying to work out what the hose coming out of it was before. Didn't seam to make a difference but it did make the engine light come on.

Dave

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:38 am

Yer but unplugging it to make it throw the code doesn't really prove anything....what would be nice is if your ECU had a code for the TCV PRIOR to you having unplugged it. Then that would be a definite nail in it's coffin.

No way to really tell now unless you do a reset on your ECU and drive around until the engine light comes on, read the codes (have you found the connectors yet?) and see if it's spitting the code for the TCV.

Of course there is every chance the thing is faulty, or partially faulty but just not causing the ECU to throw a code - that's very common anyway, as you know with O2 sensors etc.

Morcs · Post by **Morcs** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:59 pm

Just wondering whether cam timing is right can have an issue with off boost acceleration.
This can make the motor seem really sluggish if not right.
Fuel consuption will be up the crap also.

The amount of cam belts i have done to mates cars and my own the amount that have had the wrong cam timing in them has been astonishing out of about 10 i have done the ones that have been right is 3. All of these cars have been serviced by mechanics/dealers previously.
Some subarus most not.
Not that hard of job to check.
None of these had fault codes on them either.

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:04 pm

Hey Dave that's great to hear the new oil has made a difference to the shifting. I did mention that when I drove your car, I felt that the gearbox was slipping but after reading so much about this STUPID valve system in the manifold I'm more and more confident that this is were we need to go next.

I wanted to call in today but was running late and needed to drop my friend at his house. I'll call or sms you tomorrow if that's cool?

SuBaRiNo · Post by **SuBaRiNo** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:12 pm

Yeah Paul definately mate. I appreciate any help i can get at this stage.

At this stage i would like to check the timing thing and the fuel pump pressures first before we start removing the manifold.

Dave

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:06 pm

I am thinking if timing or belts was out even by one tooth , a compression test may show an imbalance?

I wouldn't give the new tranny fluid a week before flush out again. Drive around the block to operating temp and dump it again. Get to know your tranny fluid bulk wholesaler

These TGV's, I need to read up on them. Glad I don't have them in my EA82T

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:32 am

SuBaRiNo wrote:Yeah Paul definately mate. I appreciate any help i can get at this stage.

At this stage i would like to check the timing thing and the fuel pump pressures first before we start removing the manifold.

Dave

No probs Dave, I can bring up the fuel pressure gauge and check out the timing this week if you like? Just let me know what day is best

Morcs · Post by **Morcs** » Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:39 pm

Compression imbalance probably will not show up that much at all as you are only turning the motor very slowly.

Could also be the whole timing from the crank to the camshafts is out also.

The quad cam subies can be a big pain in the butt to time as one of the cams are "loaded"(has valves open and it wants to spin out of control from the timing marks).

Trick is take your time with a mate to time the quad cams and near enough is just not good enough when it comes to timing

When i last timed my my ej i put the bottom idler on last with the tensioner compressed with a small allen key.

I worked all the slack and hold the cams/timing belt tight with spanners/socket set with the cams around to the bottom idler placed it on released the tensioner turned the motor over twice (4 stroke motor)then rechecked timing.

Book says install top one last but fund every time i did it that way the timing would slip.

As i work on high speed packaging equipment most of the time the problem is human intervention that caused the problem not equipment failure...