Diesel Particulate Filter

Subyroo · Post by **Subyroo** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:01 pm

Scotty wrote:I found it happened when I was to low of a speed in a high gear for a long period of time (i.e 100km/h in 6th gear.)or to much stop starting in the city with out a long run.

Scotty

Scotty, why would Subaru build a diesel engined car with a 6 speed gearbox for Australian conditions, if the vehicle was not meant to driven at 100km/h in 6th gear for long periods of time?

Given that the speed limit on predominately most of our open roads is 100km/h and the vast distances we travel that is just plain stupidity on Subaru's part IMO.

Don't get me wrong here Scotty, I looooove my Subaru's and it would make me happy to see the diesel Subaru become "top dog" in the diesel engined car field.

Scotty · Post by **Scotty** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:40 am

Couldn't agree with you more subyroo. It is a manufacturing fault that subaru have burried their head in the sand and dont want to deal with.

I was more talking abut how I manage the issue.

Subaru have great potential with this engine. I hope they realise it and start doing damage control. Unfortunately this is a issue dating back early 2010 and they still haven't came up with a fix.

Sandor106 · Post by **Sandor106** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:54 pm

Scotty

Can you tell me what had to be done to rectify the fault and clean the diesel particulate filter?

Phil

Scotty · Post by **Scotty** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:07 am

Hi Phil

They said at the time that they cleaned it and conducted a burn off and reset the computer. Unfortunately I didn't ask to many questions about it at the time. Wish I had.

I have found doing the 'burn off' sufficient in preventing it happening that bad again.

Scotty

Linus · Post by **Linus** » Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:27 am

Had the shudders appear for the first time at 61,500km in conjuction with the DPF lights activating for the first time. 2010 Aug model Forester. I do a lot of highway driving in 5th gear generally at around 120kph. My DPF is at 48% two days ago at service. Was advised to use a wynns DPF cleaning product which is added to the fuel, and to forget using 6th gear when driving under 120kph.

From other posts im thinking i will ask the service centre to clean the DPF as well as resetting the computer.

Very dissappointed with about 50% driveability at the moment

Will get off Caltex and Woolworths Diesel

Any other ideas?

Scotty · Post by **Scotty** » Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:26 am

Hi Linus. I drive in 6th gear almost every day sitting on about 115. You should be able to sit in 6th gear on the freeway at that speed. That's ridiculous if Subaru told you to forget using 6th gear doing 120km/h. When are you suppose to use it then?

Subyroo · Post by **Subyroo** » Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:27 am

Linus wrote:Was advised to use a wynns DPF cleaning product which is added to the fuel, and to forget using 6th gear when driving under 120kph.

Any other ideas?

A 6 speed gearbox and they tell you not to use 6th gear under 120km/h, which roads other than maybe the NT can you do over 120km/h legally?

I'd be taking that up with Fair Trading and looking for compensation or a NEW vehicle, that is just bullshit.

MichaelJohn · Post by **MichaelJohn** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:50 pm

Hello,

We purchased a Premium 2.0D Forester in February last year.

Very happy with it based on power and economy and found the only issue was the rev range, especially when you go back a few gears to pass. It doesn't take long to hit the rev limiter, but once you are aware of this, it is no problem.

After 12 months and 29,000 kls, the DPF decided to play up. I told the wife to take it for a drive as per the manual, then other warning lights came on including the cruise control light flashing and the dynamics lamp.

Subaru told us it was the DPF and the had to carry out a regen and replace the oil. As the car had already been serviced there twice in the past with no problems, I was concerned as the car does not do any short trips.

After the road test, they discovered a bypass hose was leaking and not allowing the DPF to clear itself. The car is still sitting at the service centre waiting for the replacement part.

We are dissapointed with this and hope it will be as good as it was before the problem.

Happy driving
MichaelJohn

icedvolvo · Post by **icedvolvo** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:32 pm

Hey People,

I have reposted this here as well as over in the "shudder" thread.

This post may scare people a bit so don't read if you own a diesel Suby and are the anxious type stop reading now!

We got one of the first diesel Foresters (early 2010) and have had all these problems: shudders, DPF lights etc (and others). Combine this with a useless local service group and our first experience with Suby is not a good one.

But it gets worse! Our car has 75k on it and recently has had numerous DPF light issues and shuddering has got worse but the other day the engine literally exploded: no I mean really exploded with a huge BANG and then died. It's under warranty .... just under thank god ... we had it towed the extra 100kms to a dealer much further away. Anyway it turns out that the turbo had exploded taking numerous other components with it (header pipe etc). We were told that the turbo was not getting any/enough oil but don't know why yet!

But on reading about oil dilution issues I am wondering if this is the real issue here: I understand oil dilution in diesels as I have always had diesels (mechanicals -> Euro Vs). Oil dilution occurs in all diesels but is much worse in modern cars because diesel is injected via the normal injectors during the exhaust stroke and thence flows into the exhaust/turbo and then to the catalytic converter. During the next compression stroke the left over diesel oil is forced past the rings into the oil/sump thus diluting the oil. Truck engines tend to inject the diesel directly into the catalytic converter and so do not have this problem.

Regeneration takes place by pumping diesel into the catalytic converter (either directly or via the injectors as above) to burn to heat it up to burn off the soot (the converter in our Isuzu trucks actually glows red hot during a regen!!).

Now in Subys the DPF light is more like a generic warning light and serves many functions including DPF soot issues and also oil dilution. Soot is via measuring pressure differences at the ends of the catalytic converter and oil dilution via a simple "if regens_since_last_oil_change > x then oil dilution assumed so DPF light->on" algorithm.

So my question is: did the diluted oil (as indicated by the repeated DPF lights) cause our turbo to self destruct ????? If so it may be advisable to change your oil a little more frequently then indicated in the service schedule.

But to be blunt we are not going to keep ours long enough to find out; it goes straight to the auctions when it comes back from repairs!

LEMON · Post by **LEMON** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:14 pm

Particulate Filter problems

I have a 2012 Outback Diesel with 22.000 kms on the clock. Currently back in the shop for the 3rd time - having the Turbo pulled down this time due to "carbon build up" in the Turbo.

The conversations with Subaru include:

"The cause is the DPF doesn't get hot enough to burn the carbon"
"Short shifting is the problem"
"Ignore the log book gear change recommendations"
"Too much short distance driving"
"Shouldn't buy the diesel if you only drive in the city"
"Drive at 2,500 RPM"
"Yes driving at 2,500 rpm will increase fuel consumption"
"Oh yes - 6th gear at 2,500rpm would be about 140kph"
"We have now received authorisation to service the problem under warranty"
"All warranty requests have to be sent to Subaru for authorisation - normally get a reply within 24 hours - No we can only contact them by email - They won't allow us to make the warranty decisions any more"

INCHCAPE/SUBARU have a problem and should be honest and admit to it so we can all get our vehicles fixed and get on with our lives.
If mine isn't fixed then I will seek legal recourse.
If this happens I will repost in case anyone else wants to join in.
Tks
LEMON

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:48 pm

are the values of used Diesels reflecting these problems yet?

Falco80 · Post by **Falco80** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:41 pm

LEMON wrote:Particulate Filter problems

I have a 2012 Outback Diesel with 22.000 kms on the clock. Currently back in the shop for the 3rd time - having the Turbo pulled down this time due to "carbon build up" in the Turbo.

The conversations with Subaru include:

"The cause is the DPF doesn't get hot enough to burn the carbon"
"Short shifting is the problem"
"Ignore the log book gear change recommendations"
"Too much short distance driving"
"Shouldn't buy the diesel if you only drive in the city"
"Drive at 2,500 RPM"
"Yes driving at 2,500 rpm will increase fuel consumption"
"Oh yes - 6th gear at 2,500rpm would be about 140kph"
"We have now received authorisation to service the problem under warranty"
"All warranty requests have to be sent to Subaru for authorisation - normally get a reply within 24 hours - No we can only contact them by email - They won't allow us to make the warranty decisions any more"

INCHCAPE/SUBARU have a problem and should be honest and admit to it so we can all get our vehicles fixed and get on with our lives.
If mine isn't fixed then I will seek legal recourse.
If this happens I will repost in case anyone else wants to join in.
Tks
LEMON

I agree with everything your dealer has said here except the "driving at 2500rpm will increase fuel consumption" comment. I think around 2500rpm is the sweet spot, from my experience anyway. The reality with this engine is you need to keep the revs up, drive it hard occasionally and not pussy-foot it around. Lugging it around in high gears will just kill the DPF, plain and simple. The gearing is tall in this gearbox, with 4th/5th & 6th gears all being overdrive, so people just need to deal with it and select gears accordingly. Drive it when it's on-boost at 2000rpm and above and you'll be fine. Mines at 98000km's now, no DPF issue since the initial one at 9000k's two years ago. I'm on the highway everyday and still use 6th gear sparingly, only when I'm doing at least 110km/h on GPS (about 118 on speedo), too keep the revs up above 2000rpm. I think I actually get better fuel economy keeping it in 5th gear. You will never reap the fuel economy benefits driving one of these in the city anyway, so anyone who buys one for that is kidding themselves. These live on the highway in my opinion.

skipalami · Post by **skipalami** » Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:58 am

90000km to date and no DPF issues except the shuddering early in life. I drive 850km/week and Falco80 is right that these things live on the highway. In my outback 6th gear is for decoration most of the time. It used to get under my skin, but I just dont care anymore.

Fuel economy at 2500rpm is better than 1900rpm as you are on boost. I get 5.6L/100km (dash indicator) and about 6L/100km calculated. Interestingly I drove to Port Macquarie recently from Sydney and tried to use 6th. Average rpm was between 1900 and 2100rpm and the fuel economy went up to 6.2 on the dash. Came home using 5th, and the economy went back down to 5.6.

LEMON, it sounds like you are either stuck in alot of traffic, only doing very short trips or lugging the engine at low RPM. Please correct me if I am out of line. That will result in all or some of your reported problems. Once I started driviong mine how Subaru said to I had no issues.

I give my car a bootful everyday and it just seems to beg for more.

icedvolvo · Post by **icedvolvo** » Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:20 pm

Have to agree with the last few posts: these vehicles are built for highway cruising and it seems that slower city based stop/start may not be ideal for these cars. Perhaps when the auto comes out they may have a handle on this issue.

There is a Subaru Australia note about this explaining how the DPF/soot system works in great detail over 12+ pages. I wont post it here but if you are interested I will send it to you (reply here or send a PM). However the tech note does suggest "flogging" the car a bit more than you would think appropriate; basically do not let the engine fall below 2000rpm for long periods and hold gears until ~2250rpm before changing up (note that means you can never legally use 6th gear in Australia!!!!)

As for us we got our car back and it runs fine but we are none the wiser: we still do not know why it exploded!

NachaLuva · Post by **NachaLuva** » Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:54 pm

icedvolvo wrote: There is a Subaru Australia note about this explaining how the DPF/soot system works in great detail over 12+ pages. I wont post it here but if you are interested I will send it to you (reply here or send a PM)

Can you post a link?

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:36 am

Found this on a cruise.....
-04.01.12

Dear Chip It,

I just wanted to say thank you so much for all your assistance in my time of need. I had been stranded for days and saw no light at the end of the Mitsubishi Tunnel after my factory fitted DPF (Diesel Particular Filter) had a catastrophic failure.

If it was not for you and your support over the Christmas period I would still be without my NS Pajero.

After fitting the DPF Delete and EGR Restrictor with your assistance over the phone my vehicle has never perfored better.

I look forward to working with you guys in the future. Awesome Service paralleled by the quality of the product.

Regards Murray

D40 Navara

Caboolture, QLD

Chipit has a .au web site, may be worth contacting them to see if they are on the Subaru issue ???

Sounds to me that it is a six speed box for the world market - Australia just needs to lift its speed limits in order to be able to use sixth without issues - or a nice warning prior to signing one over to self that sixth gear , although in the beast don't use it until you cross into Europe

Bushranger · Post by **Bushranger** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:11 pm

Add me to the list. Having major issues with my forster diesel. Oil dilution issues it seems. trying to sort out something with dealer/subaru at the moment but it's taking a while.

Appreciate if anyone has any details on any of these diesel issues if they could get in contact.

careyw · Post by **careyw** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:11 pm

Hi Bushranger

Any updates?

Moments from a dummy spit with our Forester Turbo Diesel. I see a class action looming ...

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:32 pm

careyw wrote:Moments from a dummy spit with our Forester Turbo Diesel. I see a class action looming ...

I'm surprised Subaru Australia haven't done anything about it yet other than fobbing off individual owners one by one

I hope they do something about it soon, don't want the same thing happening to anyone like it did for the innocent lady in the VW gearbox issue - her car went into limp mode/shut down on the freeway and an unfortunate truckie hit her from behind - She paid the ultimate price that shouldn't have been.

Cheers

Bennie

Bushranger · Post by **Bushranger** » Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:55 pm

I've taken it to court via the CTTT.

Certainly I think this may eventuate into a class action unless Subaru step in. So far noone (Subaru or dealer) is willing to cooperate or admit to real extent of the issue.

I can share details to help anyone else. Would love to hear from people who've had issues.

shoot me a pm.

The AUSubaru.com.au Forums

Diesel Particulate Filter - DPF

What was the fix

So Many Excuses - Still No Answers

Any progress