New Guy 2012 XV off road

[d_generate]

Ah well if you ever get sick of it & want dual range and a bit more grunt I'll swap ya;)

[discopotato03]

Yeah well these hassles and more are here because legislation is controlling how and what YOUR car will let you do . I would not be at all surprised to find that its considered illegal to doctor this stuff particularly as it is seen as a "safety" system .
For the entertainers you would be very lucky to find an engineer that wouold sign off on a non standard engine conversion .

The killer . Tiz a sad fact of life that the manufacturers know full well that most owners won't buy these kinds of cars and take them too far off the bitumen . A lot of people nowdays have softroaders/SUVs/Cruisertrols/Toorak tractors and never intend to get them dirty . I'm not surprised that the new Zoob hasn't got a low range and from their marketing depts point of view probably doesn't need it .
There is new vehicle compliance and modification legislation looming like a black cloud over Australia in in Victoria its just starting to spit .
Have a close look at you inspection slips in NSW because theres spaces for noise and emissions test results . The Americans and some Europeans have had this for ages which is why they change cats and oxygen probes so often . No pass means no rego .
Laws are also closing in on vehicle height and wheel/tire dimensions - and track width .
I don't want to seem like a christmas stealing grinch but I think the days of "customising" the old L/MY/Brumby are just about over and its hard to imagine the "authoritiues" letting you get away with much on more current cars . I know in the "big 4WD" world people are really pissed off with what they are getting sold new ATM . All the "safety" systems limit what they can do and the regs limit what their owners can legally do . Current Cruisers are seen as garbage and I believe the best of the Patrols has come and gone . Precious few I reckon get newer Discos and Rangies dirty and wouldn't get out on much less than a golf green .
I hear that the serious off roaders are hanging onto their older pre electronic fourbys and rebuilding them to avoid the crap and hassles . Classic road car people are doing the same thing and the bonus is that in some cases the cars value increases because of its rarity .

The socialists and greens are coming to get you but only if you let them . Also its not the manufacturers driving this its the regulating bodies , if the manufacturers don't meet the Nazis standards they don't get compliance and can't sell their products .
I think the bottom line is hold onto your old faithfuls as long as you can because when they're gone they're not coming back . Whats replacing them is electronic nightmares and the day will come when these cars get on a little tired and the electronics acts up . If you and or the service dept can't fix it its history .
And because Gannon always asks - why don't I like ABS brakes . Gannon imagine your L Series RX Turbo at its current age had ABS and the unit failed . They are sealed and serviced by replacement only . All good , though expensive , but what happens when Subaru no longer supplies them and you can't find one ? Laws say you can downgrade an OE "safety" system even if a conventional one was available . Result ? Driven till inspected then failed automatically . No rego can't use so effectively a write off . For a silly box of sparks and valves ...

Anyway IMO late model cars are a hassle and almost certainly won't be here when they are 26 years old .

A .

[Excelix]

Well I am pissed after my visit to the dealership today! they advised that yes indeed the traction control is mandatory and no there is no way of disabling it.....WTF Subaru? then I proceeded to tell them that is it blows itself up off road I wil expect a warrantly claim. The dealership then tells me its not an off road vehicle whatsoever....umm again WTF? anyone seen the advertising for one of these the car is screaming up a sand dune and then there is also a 5 minute promo vid on the Subaru website again the car is screaming up a rocky mountain........I asked Scorpion subaru to help me with disabling the traction control who advised they wont touch anything on that car.....great.
I am amazed at how the attitudes have changed because when I was purchasing this car they advised me how well it goes off road because I have a jetski I would like to be able to drop in at the beach. VERY angry wish I could get my money back!
The funniest quote was "driving on sand isnt soft raoding" since when? I mainly bought this to drive on sand with my jet ski

[thunder039]

Well I am pissed after my visit to the dealership today! they advised that yes indeed the traction control is mandatory and no there is no way of disabling it.....WTF Subaru? then I proceeded to tell them that is it blows itself up off road I wil expect a warrantly claim. The dealership then tells me its not an off road vehicle whatsoever....umm again WTF? anyone seen the advertising for one of these the car is screaming up a sand dune and then there is also a 5 minute promo vid on the Subaru website again the car is screaming up a rocky mountain........I asked Scorpion subaru to help me with disabling the traction control who advised they wont touch anything on that car.....great.
I am amazed at how the attitudes have changed because when I was purchasing this car they advised me how well it goes off road because I have a jetski I would like to be able to drop in at the beach. VERY angry wish I could get my money back!
The funniest quote was "driving on sand isnt soft raoding" since when? I mainly bought this to drive on sand with my jet ski

that really isn't good enough... there still should be some way that you will be able to disable vdc but subaru just didn't want to tell you.
its has been part of subarus marketing campaign not only for the xv but for basically all there cars since the late 70s that they can go off road.
hopefully for you, you can fix the vdc.
this story makes me dislike the new subaru's even more which is sad when a subaru fanatic doesnt like the current fleet of cars.

[Excelix]

As far as I am concerned its FALSE advertising, regardless of anything. If i wanted a car that could only drive down a flat dirt road I would have bought something basic like a falcon, I have written a letter of complaint stating how they are advertising this as an off road vehicle yet when it comes down to it, the vehicle is designed to stop you, and the response from the dealership isnt adequate and I have advised them I am taking this further if they do not wish to assist me with something that is clearly a fault or bad design, or If they do not wish me to take this even higher refund me! (which wont happen lol)

[thunder039]

As far as I am concerned its FALSE advertising, regardless of anything. If i wanted a car that could only drive down a flat dirt road I would have bought something basic like a falcon, I have written a letter of complaint stating how they are advertising this as an off road vehicle yet when it comes down to it, the vehicle is designed to stop you, and the response from the dealership isnt adequate and I have advised them I am taking this further if they do not wish to assist me with something that is clearly a fault or bad design, or If they do not wish me to take this even higher refund me! (which wont happen lol)

good on ya!

[Alex]

im watching this thread closely.

whoever told you it isnt an offroad car shouldnt be working at a subaru dealer.

they are designed for sand/light offroading. I know if i had one, id defiantely take it for a spin down the beach. (but not much more than that)

alex

[Excelix]

Alex thats all I want to do in it, I dont expect it to be a hilux and certainly didnt expect Subaru to wash their hands of me when i complained and asked for help on what should be a minor set back, I will await Subaru's reply to my letter of complaint, Not sure on my chances but maybe the head office will instruct them to disable it at my request?.....maybe

[thunder039]

may not disable it but will give you the tools too. but if they disable it, may void your warranty

[SubieMad]

Good friend of mine at work was looking at buying a Foz about 6 months ago. He's a fisherman and likes to drive on the beach. As soon as the Subie salesman heard that he said "sorry its not an off road vehicle, it will not cope with beach work".

Simple really, they are not prepared to expose themselves to warranty issues if you "abuse" the car.

This is not just subaru but all manufacturers.

Nobody is prepared to say that their car will go offroad if you ask them, however much they portray that they do in the advertising.

Its the same as maccas showing a massive succulent burger on thier ads and when you buy one it is cräp.

We are to blame. We're the ones who have let successive governments bring in laws that allow big business to do whatever they want. How do we change this? Thats easy - just vote for a party that strikes the balance between big business, social needs, security, openess, ............. ha ha ha ha ha

Good Luck !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pezimm]

I don't know if the bolting pattern has changed with the FB engine design.

Well, it may have, but I believe the current model Foz N/A manual still has the low range. It also has an FB engine, so at the very worst case scenario, a transmission case from that should bolt on and have room for the low range...

Building a gearbox with a good low range should only be a matter or time and more importantly: $$$


Just to wrap up: big shout-out to Excelix for getting his brand new car out there! Nice to see I'm not the only crazy nut testing the abilities of a new Subaru...

Cheers,
Pedro.

[Excelix]

Very true but my dealership knew exactly what I was buying this vehicle for, and they boasted often about its off road capabilities, thus my anger when I ask how to fix this problem of stability control

[Excelix]

Well, it may have, but I believe the current model Foz N/A manual still has the low range. It also has an FB engine, so at the very worst case scenario, a transmission case from that should bolt on and have room for the low range...

Building a gearbox with a good low range should only be a matter or time and more importantly: $$$


Just to wrap up: big shout-out to Excelix for getting his brand new car out there! Nice to see I'm not the only crazy nut testing the abilities of a new Subaru...

Cheers,
Pedro.

Thanks mate, will have more pics of her this week, a few mates and I are going to look at taking out that fuse and we are hitting the sands on friday, I will have a big 3 seater waverunner on the back of her so we are going to see how well she goes in the sand, I expect her to be fine but I will post up some pictures on here and maybe a youtube video if i get a chance

[El_Freddo]

Well, it may have, but I believe the current model Foz N/A manual still has the low range. It also has an FB engine, so at the very worst case scenario, a transmission case from that should bolt on and have room for the low range...

I wouldn't be surprised if Subaru has dropped the low range in the latest foz...

I'm looking forward to more pics 4wd'n.

Cheers

Bennie

[pezimm]

I'm looking forward to more pics 4wd'n.

Cheers

Bennie

Me too!!

Just confirmed... The Foz X still has dual-range on 1.196 ratio, as per here!

But it doesn't look like it will be there for long...

Excelix, just to let you into my experience... I've had the Forester since new (ex-Demo). Had it lifted about 18 months ago and still take it to the dealer for service to hold my warranty, which was a 5-year extended one.

Never did anyone mention any of my mods: lift, HD springs or bigger tyres. Now, I'm not naive to think they wouldn't make a big fuss if I was to claim warranty on anything. Well, that's all about to end in May when the warranty runs out, so looks like my Foz won't see a dealer again...

Cheers!
Pedro.

[pitrack_1]

Harrumph!

In general I agree with discopotato03's doom-n-gloom view of the world. Unfortunately- or perhaps fortunately- marketing dictates an ANCAP 5-star safety rating and you can't achieve that without ESC.

ANCAP:
- Note on the ANCAP site the Outback is features as the 5-star example.
- Note also there is no information about the points scoring system on their website (at least that I can easily find).
- Note also that the ESC, seat belt reminders et al required for the 5-star rating won't help save you in a crash, which is what ANCAP is all about.
- Our 2010 Forester has a front passenger seat seat belt reminder and from what I remember it was to help it attain an ANCAP 5-star rating. This is an Australia-specific feature!

I also agree that the vast majority of the market, like me, won't see much more than a muddy driveway (all right, I've seen some dirt tracks, but nothing requiring specific skills). Therefore they must build to cater for that market as that where the $$$ and sales are.

I, too like discopotato03 am hanging on to old vehicles. I have a 1990 (remember that century..even millennium! ) Pulsar and an 04 Mazda 3 SP23. Nothing but 4-wheel discs on the Pulsar and Discs plus ABS (plus all the airbags and structural integrity) on the Mazda- you can pull a fuse on that for the ABS I think. Pulsar can be thrown around on anything. The Mazda, whilst being integrally safe and a reasonably handling small car, just can't handle any dirt roads though due to lack of clearance suspension tune and the tyres/rims. But with these cars, you can experiment with handling characteristic limits which you can't with nanny-aided ones.

As for the electronics dying, yes, that came in from about the Pulsar (or earlier for some) with ECUs, electronic dashes et al. They're called 'time bombs' and Top Gear even did a segment on 'em. A simple component failure can write off the vehicle. You can remanufacture a mechanical component, but not electronics. The best you can hope for is to replace or perhaps simulate. Often its the wiring or harness connectors that go first, through corrosion. I know someone with a 20 year old 7-Series BMW. Apparently when he starts up, parked (no doubt at idle and in P) with the hand-brake on and the speedo suddenly reads 200+km/h (speedo max) the OBC can't cope and starts doing strange things of its own...

Excelix (Rohan): Congrats on your purchase and putting it up for us to see. Be glad you've got a 5-star rated car, it'll help protect you on or off road!

As for disabling the traction control:
- With the authority comes the responsibility. If you're going to change the manufacturer's designed settings then you need to be willing to wear the consequences, i.e. accept the warranty is voided on what it affects. And you may be personally liable for any damage/injuries you cause through disabling it! Be that as it may...
- Read you car manual carefully. On our Forester the traction control is linked to the stability control is linked to the ABS is linked to the engine management, etc. Your vehicle is likely similar. For example, the stability control is dependent on the ABS and the engine management system. Here is your way in- if one fails, the others are turned off- If you can fault the ESC/ABS you can probably disable the traction control.
- Another way would be to disconnect a sensor (e.g. yaw sensor, ABS sensor) or section (e.g. pull ABS harness?) to throw a fault and perhaps disable the system that way. Beware, you may disable more than you intend (e.g. airbags, engine management, hill start assist) . And then you need to reenable it. I found by pulling one of the main fuses you could clear CEL/ABS/ESC fault lights...
- It's not impossible, I suppose, by disabling the traction control it may be possible you could damage something somewhere by removing limitations.

Advertising:
From the ACCC : "Misleading and Deceptive Conduct"
"It makes no difference whether the business intended to mislead or deceive you—it is how the conduct of the business affected your thoughts and beliefs that matters.

If the overall impression left by an advertisement, promotion, quotation, statement or other representation made by a business creates a misleading impression in your mind—such as to the price, value or the quality of any goods and services—then the conduct is likely to breach the law."

And
"False claims"
...For example, the law also says businesses must not make false claims about:...the sponsorship, performance characteristics, accessories, benefits and uses of goods and services"

So if there's a perception they create, that's what it should do, 'filmed under controlled conditions' or not. If it shown going up/down a dune, or scrabbling up rocks, so (reasonably) should yours. We're not talking stunt driving or Dukes of Hazzard jumps here. Good for longevity? Perhaps not. Capable? Within reason it should be.

Even worse if one thing said in the showroom is contradicted by the service dept or afterwards. You may have a case if they show or tell you about it doing certain things before the sale but then tell you it can't afterwards.

Dual-range gearboxes
No doubt being dropped due to lack of consumer- me- (as opposed to enthusiast) demand. Cheaper too. Only the X or XS has it in the Forester.

The diesel instead has a 6-speed manual. They give you a 'low range' first and, couple with the diesel's complete lack of low-down torque all it does is royally stuff up the 6-speed ratios. 1st is not low enough for real work, but too low to use easily in normal driving. 2nd is then too far away (and too high to use for starting as the diesel doesn't have low-down torque), 3rd and 4th are rather high but useful and 5th and 6th are separated by less than 10% making one of them almost redundant. The result is a mess and best described (and driven) as a three-speed manual (2nd, 3rd and 4th) out of an old Kingswood or Torana with a low-range 1st gear for starting (!) and an extra 2 gears on top (5th and 6th) that could easily be one. And a ropey, imprecise gear change.

[Excelix]

Well I picked up the car this morning with my new rear wing and towbar, I have to say the rear wing makes it almost looks kinda STi....kinda and the tow bar kit was done very well
I had the same muppet again today who insisted driving on sand was "not softraoding" "sigh" But he did explain to me that there is no way of disabling the traction control and to achieve the 5 star safety rating this has to be built into the car.....which I can understand....But I still will be going through with my complaint against Subaru for this (I secretly still love the car and im not giving up on it)
I believe a heavy duty clutch is going to help me significently with the traction control as the current one is just too soft to be reved out, the traction control in some cases actually assisted me greatly off road but other times it needed to be turned off so i could get everything spinning.
The real test will be friday when I hook up my 3 seater waverunner and drive her on the soft sand with it, I shall see how she goes with that....I think I should be ok.....so far have been unsuccessful taking off the traction control

[95Liberty]

At one point in time, at work I was driving a transit van with a 6 speed manual. It was annoying with 1st being too low most of the time and 2nd being to high to start off. On top of that , it seemed like a thousand gear changes each day.

[discopotato03]

Sad fact of life good Soobers is that the vast majority of these vehicles will go to tar babys and they won't miss any of the serious stuff .
Marketing departments KNOW people have this self image thing that begins and ends with the illusion of having vehicle "capability" , you know Cape york dreams driving down York street in the city .
They get called soft roaders / SUVs for a reason and thats not tackling anything half serious terrain wise . Society is breeding a generation of wannabee pretenders and for the adventurous ones , they get put off by litigation .

Take it to the grave . If you want a half serious vehicle you're going to have to start with something at least 10-15 years old and try to get one that was soft pedaled around . Accept the fact that it could absorb a fair bit of money and time but you'll get closer to what you want to have/use .
The days of buying a new "modern" vehicle and not have it dictate to you what you can make it do are gone and probably not coming back .

Early generation Libs are possibly a reasonably safe base to start from and there are so many cheap spares out there for them . I'd actually look for a base model without all the electric/electronic crap like fast glass and ABS because theres less to go wrong and the simplest systems tend to be boringly reliable . The bits worth adding generally bolt on/plug in and if wisely chosen give you what you want .

I'm glad the diesel dramas are being seen for what they are so people who hoped for a good reliable economical torquey car treat the Subaru one with complete contempt . Its not a real diesels ars*h*le .

The only way this overall situation can be stopped is for the buying public all around the world demand the bureaucrats back off and stop trying to control our lives . It is hard when they hide behind the safety banner and people refuse to accept responsibility for their own actions . Smart asses who always look for excuses to sue anyone for their own acts of stupidity are largely responsible for litigation and business fear the law suits - all too often smarty wins and demands millions in compensation . Subaru don't want you to be in a position to sue them when you drove your family into the ocean and drowned them in your "Off Roader" . Too bad if they were burning along in Frasers surf in the TV adds ...
"Oh no sir , we only intend you to pretend you're Mike and Mal Leyland - not actually do any of that ikky stuff" . "Here's your 6 pack of complementary pressure pack mud spray to impress the neighbours too , we can arrange shots and clean the vehicle afterwards if required " .

Honestly leave these new marshmallows to the well healed wood ducks and soldier on with something older that has some substance .

Not doom and gloom just facts and reality, good old cars are out there if you are prepared to search for and look after them .
Ellies going on 26 years and 375,000 kays and while its not fresh it isn'd dead or unsafe . It cost me many times over the $2000 purchase price and the above BS is why when looking back I didn't mind .
One of my fears is that one day I may not be able to find a car built prior to 2000 and will have to put up with current or later garbage that won't have the life that 80s and 90s cars can if looked after . I can see scrap yards full of mechanically sound vehicles murdered by fallable electronics .

Time will tell and the next 10 years will be very telling .....

A .

[Excelix]

Ok good news! traction control done little "if anything" to hamper my efforts today on soft sand and that was with my Jetski on the back, so I am much pleased!
I did get bogged once but that was my fault for stopping, but she got herself out no worries, I do notice the need for low range here and a much better clutch is needed too, again clearance done very well on this vehicle, its an assest the diff clearance. I only got one picture sorry