97 Outback rough idle, rebuild or replace engine?

greeny · Post by **greeny** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:21 pm

Hi everyone,

I bought a 97 outback (auto, 170000km) a little while ago and have had really terrible luck with it. Have fixed a few thing so far but the main problem seems to be inside the engine itself. It doesn't have much power uphill and is really shaky and rough when idling. When crawling and slowing down through traffic it sometimes makes a slight knocking sound, and very occasionally stalls when stationary. Have had 2 different mechanics look at it, the first (local guy on the corner) said possible stuffed valves, the 2nd (subi dealership) "ran every test in the book" with no conclusive answer. In other words nothing shows up on the computer and they're not game enough to make big statements like "you're engine's stuffed love"
I figure I have 2 options: 1, get someone to tear it down and and find the problem or 2, just get the engine replaced.
I'm not happy with either mechanic really, and want to get a subi pro to look at it and give me an opinion, basically is a car this old worth spending that much money on??
Anyone have any ideas how much $$ to rebuild or replace engine? 2.5L EJ25
Also, what do you think I could sell the car for in current condition?
The body/suspension/gearbox/steering all seems good. No problems starting, and drives/handles ok, the problem is only noticeable when stationary or going uphill.

d_generate · Post by **d_generate** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:36 am

It could be something as simple as a broken engine mount, get someone to look under the bonnet (from the side) and put it in gear with the hand brake on & the foot brake on and rev the motor like you are going to drive, if the engine lifts on the passenger side or moves a lot there is possibly your very cheap to fix answer.

It could also very likely be a dirty/stuffed Air Flow Meter, they don't always throw a CEL so a good dose of spray on contact cleaner "only" might just fix it too.

Venom · Post by **Venom** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:10 pm

Is this car blue by any chance? With factory roof racks, cargo blind, paint peeling off the grey bumpers? I looked at a blue auto outback on Ebay with similar kms a few months ago. The guy who was selling it (owner for the past 5 years) was getting rid of it because the crank key was worn and it was causing the whole car to shake at idle, amongst other problems.

He had this temporarily fixed by a mechanic who used metal putty stuff which lasted a few years but wore out again.

Seems a stretch that you bought this actual car, but regardless the symptoms you described are very similar to the ones present in this car. If your dealership has checked all the obvious stuff, then this seems like a good candidate and i would ask them to check specifically if the crank key is worn. Apparently its a reasonably commmon problem with these engines.

On another note i have a decent outback motor in Ballarat i need to get rid of that would go in your car.

greeny · Post by **greeny** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:30 pm

thanks guys, i'll give those things a go.
nope, not blue. but seems the guy selling it to me managed to hide the problem too.

d_generate · Post by **d_generate** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:32 am

Another thing to try is to start the car and let it idle, whilst it's idling wriggle every plug you can find under the bonnet then dash then under the back seat on the drivers side (fuel pump) to make it stall, it's even better if you can turn the radio to an area with no sound & turn it up full bore, if you hear crackling whilst wriggling you have a problem with that connection......Again contact spray will possibly help.

NachaLuva · Post by **NachaLuva** » Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:49 pm

I just bought a '98 Forester from my bro-in-law. He swore by this guy who did all his work.
Used to work for a subie dealer before he went out on his own. Seems to really know his stuff & IS HONEST!
Thats right...an honest mechanic! lol

Anyway, he's in Warrandyte. You're in Ivanhoe?
His name is Greg Van Scoy. No is 98441242.
[email protected]

Iv been meaning to call him & ask if he can recommend good subie mechanic down my way (Frankston). If wasnt such a long way to go i'd def b going there

greeny · Post by **greeny** » Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:02 pm

thanks, i'm taking it to "lucas automotive" in moorabbin this week, he's been recommended on this site a few times. i'll let you know how it goes.

greeny · Post by **greeny** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:54 pm

update, following lucas' recommendation I have decided to replace the engine. Far cheaper than tearing the old one down to find the problem (up to $4500). Thanks for all hints above, but the whole engine was generally r**ted. Mainly not enough pressure in one chamber. Seems like a classic (but sad) case of previous owners not looking after the car. Interestingly, the mechanic said there was evidence that the engine had been removed before (damaged engine bracket/bolts). I'm sure I must have test drove it with a different engine. How else could an engine go from fine to wrecked in under a month?

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:16 pm

PROBLEM

replace the engine does not generally mean all the little tune bits that may be the cause of some of your symptoms - and as we don't know all the symptoms and their cause.....

Low pressure in one cylinder - could be a burnt valve or worn/gunked up rings. A further test compression test with a squirt of oil in the spark plug hole, helps seal the rings and better identify the problem - so too a cylinder leakage test more definitive. You can google and wiki cylinder leakage/leakdown test.

What we used to see was people go for a new engine, recoed or good second hand but still bolt back old carby, old breathers, old inlet manifolds, old distributor etc without those components being cleaned or reconditioned as well. Sometimes same old problems arise

because cause was not old motor as such

Your engine does not have a carby or dizzy.

It is hard to diagnose correctly - strip and then quote is safest way all around, but still have to pay mechanic for strip time.

What track are you going down ? Used engine fitted with parts and labour warranty? Reconditioned - as in new pistons , rebored and exchange engine basis etc ?

greeny · Post by **greeny** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:09 pm

thanks for your advice, will keep it in mind. most other "little bits" have been tested and are ok. the car has been to 3 different mechanics and alot of testing has been done. fuel injectors have been removed and cleaned amongst other things. mech thinks mainly valves, but engine so rough could be other damaged parts aswell. i have the most faith in the most recent mechanic, his business is part of a suby wrecking yard, so going to see what engines he can get hold of and then decide whether to go reconditioned or just 2nd had swap depending on what's available. i will be negotiating some kind of warranty if engine replaced. Also looking to get one with new head gasket as i've heard this is a common problem in these engines.

d_generate · Post by **d_generate** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:01 pm

Yeah, notoriously bad head gasket problems on the early 2.5's.

greeny · Post by **greeny** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:14 pm

decided to get a used engine as a replacement. not reconditioned, just taken out of a car being wrecked for other reasons. "new" engine same model and tested by mechanic. mech offered 30 day warranty, and advising check after 1000km. Rough idle and lack of power fixed. Drives just like it should noe, and sounds normal. But still stalling occasionally, usually when cold and stopping suddenly. Taking it back to mech for 1000km check next week, but any ideas anyone? The old engine was basically rooted. Like I said the car drives well now, just stalls unexpectantly sometimes. starts up easily, no problems.