The EA82T HATE wall

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steptoe
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The EA82T HATE wall

Post by steptoe » Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:35 pm

What is or was wrong with the EA82T?

There could not have been too many sold in Australia for a start, beginning 25 years ago.

Priced new at about the same as a mid level turbo VL Conmmodore (unfair comparo)

Surely they did not crap themselves too early in their life, like in first ten years 1985 to 1995?

As a car gets older, its owner or subsequent owners tend not to want to spend money paying mechanic to keep car on the road reliably, so can be passed on to someone like myself and Disco, Checkers who continue to tinker at our leisure (or flat out like Checkers EJ "blaspheme" conversion) at a cost of parts only, most times. Pick on a similar vehicle of its era the turbo Cordia - not many of these little rockets left on the road today as they left the factory

I looked at an auto turbo L in 2000. Asking price $5k

I finally bought one in 2006 for $600. So it came with its very own compliance plate, so no stuffing around with an engineer (dollar signs), rego (PITA), insurance (more dollar signs) because it ain't modified to turbo, and got my first disc braked rear car

As asking price drops so does what you get. I have had some cheap fun, learning experience with efi, demistifying turbos (worked with a turbo nut 20 years ago but they were still his secrets)

If I'd shelled out 10 to 15 K on a turbo subie and gassed it and ended up blowing gaskets or turbo or heads it would be a more costly exercise than what I have got now. Amazingly still beetling around on LTurbos old rattler we swapped $100, a tail light and rear bumper for. Only been on a tow truck once in my possession and that was to get it home.

Love its 2.5 inch turbo note, its 4WD accessability dressed as a sedan, and also the disappointed looks on people when they turn to se a REX rumbling down the road :)

Done almost 40,000km in it, holding my Brumby back from its millionth km, and curently costs me 7.5 cents per k in 60cpl fuel - equivalent to the cost of a petrol or diesel car giving 6.5litres per 100km

And if some arse wipe nudges its paintwork in a car park - I don't get too upset.

Surely if an EA82T was rebuilt to like new specs, new radiator, fuel pump, injectors, relays, fuses, fusible links, ECU senders and kept at standard factory boost - it would give a good ten years or 250,000km good service

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Post by steptoe » Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:49 pm

What has gone wrong with my Cheap Grief?

Bought with cooked engine. But came with reco radiator :)
Bought 'import' EA82T, complete with bridge carcks
Found inlet gaskets leaking coolant into intakes
Found cracked heads, more than bridge cracks
Found out neearly four years later - temp sender not read above 1/4 hot
Found weak valve spring caused miss ( thanks to Scoobidoo)
Fitted new HVLA's trying to fix above miss
Fuel pump died - eventually
Found rust below screen, leaking water into ECU and relays :)
Fusible Link (23 yo) corroded - nearly terminating Cheap Grief electrics
Above FL may have caused coil to be replaced unnecessarily
Swapped out the dribbly auto for a manual 5 sp d/r 4WD
same for dribbly power steer rack
resealed power steer pump - easy

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Checkers
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Post by Checkers » Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:13 pm

Nothing is wrong with them, just an EJ is a better engine.

My EA82T had done 208 000 km when I pulled it out and most of that has service history with no issues I can see. It still started first time every time and would run without issue or over heating.

I went to an EJ 22 because I like to tow and while the EA82T is a great engine it is not what I would call great for towing and I reckon if I had of used it it would have over heated. Add to that the EJ 22 has a 16 bit ECU and 10 years worth of R&D and you get more advantages than just more capacity.

If I didn't want to tow then I would have just stayed with the EA82T as it was causing no issues and sounded cool :>

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Post by T'subaru » Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:22 am

I have 2 ea82T's, one I cooked pretty good. Hit the wreckers this morning and I think I need another toy. Ran into an '86 GL 4 door, looks just like the rx's less the trunk spoiler. It has the ea82t, 5 spd pb and a 3.70 rear end..no lsd but the car is very straight and clean,nice paint and has not been touched for a single part and is 100% complete. ( did I mention sunroof and digi dash? ) I'll post a pic when I pull it home.
:D

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Post by Subaman » Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:53 am

The EA82T was an excellent tow engine, provided you spent money and fitted a twin core radiator, with maximum torque at 2800 odd RPM (as apposed to the EJ22`s 4400+rpm), what more could you ask for. Yeah they suffered a bit of lag initially, but who drives around continually at 1000rpm anyway, mid range power is what you want the majority of the time and thats what they did best. If you have ever tried towing anything substantial with an EJ22 over distance, they struggle and overheat too and the turbo comes into its own as soon as you put a hill infront it.

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phillatdarwin
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Post by phillatdarwin » Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:59 pm

and if u read up on a ea82t and it is running a vf28 u get all your maximum torque at around 2200rpm

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Checkers
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Post by Checkers » Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:06 pm

Subaman wrote:The EA82T was an excellent tow engine, provided you spent money and fitted a twin core radiator, with maximum torque at 2800 odd RPM (as apposed to the EJ22`s 4400+rpm), what more could you ask for. Yeah they suffered a bit of lag initially, but who drives around continually at 1000rpm anyway, mid range power is what you want the majority of the time and thats what they did best. If you have ever tried towing anything substantial with an EJ22 over distance, they struggle and overheat too and the turbo comes into its own as soon as you put a hill infront it.
mmm I would have to disagree with you straight up. I have towed a lot with the EJ22 and found it to be a great engine with no over heating and never any issues. I have towed to melbourne and back which I would call a significant distance. Towing with the EA82T on the other hand sucked. Yeah it pulled ok on boost but in a front wheel drive car that isn't what you want and more often than not just ended in wheel spin.

As for the rest of the power the EJ 22 craps all over the EA82T for drivability and usable power. Having just come back from a beach trip I am happy to say the Ej22 is much better than the EA82T.

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Post by Gannon » Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:27 pm

Its really not fair to compare the EA82T with an EJ22 design wise because the ej22 is newer, more modern engine.

But as for drive-ability, it depends on what you are using it for.

My EA82T with the WAIC and 10psi was great for leaving in 5th gear driving to and from work (hilly country road) cos all the torque was around that 80-100km/h band.

As for accelerating 0-100km/h, the EJ22 is probably the quicker of the two because the torque is up higher which means you can make better use of the lower gears. The power from the EA82T sorta dropped after 4500rpm which forced you to change into the next higher gear.

I dont hate the EA82T, i thought it was great. Ive often thought if i ever get an EJ20/22/25 turbo, id like to try a low rpm torque cam grind, a smallish turbo and try to replicate the torque curve of the EA82T. Imagine how awesome it would be.

Maybe an XT Forester engine would be a good starting point, they have a 2.5L with only a TD04 turbo and produce 320Nm @ 3600rpm
Current rides: 2016 Mitsubishi Triton GLS & 2004 Forester X
Ongoing Project/Toy: 1987 RX Turbo EA82T, Speeduino ECU, Coil-pack ignition, 440cc Injectors, KONI adjustale front struts, Hybrid L Series/ Liberty AWD 5sp
Past rides: 92 L series turbo converted wagon, 83 Leone GL Sedan, 2004 Liberty GT Sedan & 2001 Outback
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Subaman
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Post by Subaman » Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:30 pm

mmm I would have to disagree with you straight up. I have towed a lot with the EJ22 and found it to be a great engine with no over heating and never any issues. I have towed to melbourne and back which I would call a significant distance. Towing with the EA82T on the other hand sucked. Yeah it pulled ok on boost but in a front wheel drive car that isn't what you want and more often than not just ended in wheel spin.

Yeah yeah, I have towed plenty too including car trailers with Liberty`s on them, trailers full of engines and gearboxes from Brisbane to Sydney all behind RX Turbo`s , not to mention a substantial journey last yeah towing with an EJ20T, I wouldnt be commenting on here about it if I didnt feel as though I had some form of experience to offer, but I am not about to get into a debate about who has towed what and where.

As for the rest of the power the EJ 22 craps all over the EA82T for drivability and usable power.

All power is usable power.
Having just come back from a beach trip I am happy to say the Ej22 is much better than the EA82T.

You must have had one sad EA82T then. I am not really saying one is better than the other, just that they are much of a muchness I do however know from experience that you have to rev the crap out of an EJ22 before it comes alive.

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Post by Checkers » Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:46 pm

Subaman wrote:Yeah yeah, I have towed plenty too including car trailers with Liberty`s on them, trailers full of engines and gearboxes from Brisbane to Sydney all behind RX Turbo`s , not to mention a substantial journey last yeah towing with an EJ20T, I wouldnt be commenting on here about it if I didnt feel as though I had some form of experience to offer, but I am not about to get into a debate about who has towed what and where.




All power is usable power.



You must have had one sad EA82T then. I am not really saying one is better than the other, just that they are much of a muchness I do however know from experience that you have to rev the crap out of an EJ22 before it comes alive.
I think I will just agree to disagree as argueing with someone on the internet is not high on my things to do list. Since I have never seen anyone go from an EJ22 to an EA82T I guess I am not the only one who thinks the EJ22 conversion was a step up across the board.

As for my EA82T being sad, it tested fine, good compression and stock boost. I have only owned 3 EA82T's though and they were all the same to drive so maybe they were all sad and I just haven't driven a healthy one.

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Post by Subaman » Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:04 pm

Previous Subies (not necessarily in order) - 81 My Wagon, 82 MY Sports wagon, 84 MY Sports wagon, 90 Brumby, 85 Brumby, 85 L Series Turbo Sedan, 85 L Series Touring Wagon, 88 L Series RX Turbo, 86 L Series RX Turbo, 87 L Series GL Sedan, 89 MPFI touring Wagon, 89 MPFI Touring Wagon, 90 GX Liberty Wagon, 93 GX Liberty Wagon.

Current Suby - 91 GX Liberty wagon.
Modifications - 3 inch Lift,15x7 Alloy wheels, 28x8.5R Nankangs, EJ20 Turbo,STI ECU, RS Legacy Bonnet,2.5 inch exhaust,15 PSI Boost, WAIC, 5 speed manual with lower low range, 4.11 ratios, RS Liberty twin pot front brakes, RS Liberty ventilated rear brakes, Clutch LSD rear, Subaru Diff Protector, Outback Struts,30mm Lift springs, SubaXtreme bumper replacement bar, Duel Deep cycle Marine Batteries with controller,Rear Accessory plugs, RS Turbo Radiator, 98 Legacy front and rear swade leather seats - Electric drivers seat. GME UHF, GME ariels, GME AM CB, DVD player,6x9 rear speakers, Hella comets,Towbar, Tint, Rola Racks, LED down lights in tailgate, RS Liberty MOMO wheel


As you can see, I speak from experience too, I also live about 1km away from Brett (my brother) who has done that many different engine conversions in as many different configurations etc as you can imagine, and over the years I have got to help on some, test drive some and basically experience the outcomes first hand and nothing I have seen would have ever made me personally consider replacing my EA82T with an EJ22 for performance reasons alone.

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Post by discopotato03 » Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:03 pm

I can't decide if hate is the right word to use for my RX EA82T tub .

The thing is that if you want more modern like features you either have to create them in an old girl or buy them in a newer one .
It was said to me years ago that factory engineering is hard to beat , on price , and I hope this is my last lesson into 1980's cars .

I have no doubt you can make an RX go and handle and stop but getting basic things like the trans suspension and brakes up to scratch is not cheap . More modern cars like Libs and Imprezas have a lot more of the basis out of the box so you're that much further ahead to start with . Plus a newer body and more creature comforts to go with the better than sputnic engine .
The only penalty is a larger and heavier body though thats not the end of the world in a general use car .

IMO the EA82 is a technology starved cheapish update of the EA81 , it should have had heads designed around being SOHC like the early EJ ones .
I dunno , Subaru must have had their reasons . I guess there were lots of L's sold worldwide so they were making money .
I think the Japanese don't intend people to keep cars much longer than 7-10 yrs so by rights there shouldn't be any L's in existance .
For some reason they generally keep on keeping on and people keep buying them cheaply - initially anyway . Thats the catch with L's , you generally buy them inexpensively and the game starts afterwards .

Thats interesting about water in the ECU , I get a small pool of it on the drivers side mat after heavy rain so will have to look closer at that computer .

Cheers A .

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Post by steptoe » Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:27 pm

Subaman - I count 14 you've had , thats a few alright.

I can say it always seems to be once someone has made the EJ modgrade they are happy.
Not start this to get any slanging just views and venting.

I can see with EA82T and just in FWD with boost coming on when you want it and with a load onboard or behind - that traction is gonna go torque steer in the dry. Gotta say AWD in normal demand everday driving other than serious off road, has gotta be the way to go with turbo urge.

I do like the low in the revs power of the EA82T compared to NA EA82 and EA81 hotties.

CONFESSION: Only NA EJ I have ever driven EJ22 auto FWD with 500,000 - felt it had potential and EJ25 Lib GT? 2007 auto.... well it was at the better extreme of things

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Post by T'subaru » Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:14 pm

Having just aquired another ea82t subi in a condition unknown state doesn't concern me, I hope its ok but I've found that wreckers here will move untouched legacys complete for the going scrap prices. This weekend a wrecker offered to place a 90 leg on a pad and let me strip everything I want as its scheduled to be scrapped. There currently are a few runners with overheat issues to be had for 500.00 or less. I wouldn't spend the money required for a full rebuild, but I'm going to exchange my ej20G for an import ea82t for now. As they die its ej time.

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Post by Subaman » Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:28 pm

Yeah I agree, the torque steer takes a bit of getting used to, luckily one of my RX`s had the L Series awd box fitted. But in theory, if the EJ22 had the same power ( allthough it comes in alot less hash), still would/should suffer from some form of torque steer too.
I am a big fan of all Suby motors, and yeah, ofcourse,they do get better as technology progresses, but I really hate it when someone starts bagging out some tired old suby motor from the past because they are comparing it with a newer design, in their day the EA82T was leagues ahead of pretty much most of the competition, and still continues to give some of them a run for their money today. The beauty of an EA82T, or any stock turbo is it is so cheap and easy to make it perform better, with a motor like the EJ22, without spending big bucks you are pretty much stuck with what you`ve got.

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Post by steptoe » Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:57 am

I find the EA82T in my L Sedan is nice/fun to drive once I get moving. It is not wise to pit it against new Corollas at the lights. Gees, when it was auto and weak valve spring to consider, a run against a mate with his square Festiva 5 speed on LPG was sort of embarrasing until 100 kph.

Look at the achievements of QIKRX? recently getting 100hp out of each pot of his modified EA82T before it self destructed internally

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Post by steptoe » Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:58 am

C'mon AndrewT .....I put this up with you in mind to find out your experience of this motor

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Post by Turbone » Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:38 pm

Been a while since I've been here, followed T'subaru over when he posted up on USMB. Discopotato knows my RX and some of what I know about the EA82T.
Just to start things off, I've owned over 40 Subaru's in the last 15yrs, most of them old school. I have forayed into the new gen stuff, I have a 95 Imp with a swapped 2.2 and also have a 92 SVX (#3).
Working with the EA82T is a love-hate relationship. When I bought my 89 RX it had a hole in the top of the block and from other indications, it looked like it almost caught on fire too. I went thru 4 used engines before buying a rebuilt.
Most of you have mentioned all the problems that plague this engine, I'm not going to go thru it all again. But if you start fresh and make the mods conservative, it can be a reliable engine.
After I had mine in the RX for a year, I started to slowly do some mods.
Before I even put it on the road, I installed a 2 row rad....thats a must.
Then came the TMIC, which helped cool the whole engine bay....mostly after cutting the hole in the hood. My temps while cruising are usually around 130deg F. I have to be idling for 15min for it to reach 180deg and the thermostat opens.
I've had no problems running this cold, except here its winter and it takes a while to get my feet warm :rolleyes:
The mods came slowly, due to funds. But they were thought out. I had the exhaust from the DP back enlarged to 2.5in and a turbo muffler put on.
Also kept the airbox stock, but put a K&N panel filter in. Next came a 87.5 XT-T Spyder intake and a TD04 turbo.
This is when the real fun started :p
With a good MBC I kicked the boost up to 12lbs and you couldnt keep the grin off my face. But to save myself from getting tagged by the law and top preserve my engine, I brought it back down to 10lbs. Its still fun to drive and with my MBC inside the car, I can kick it up when needed.
My last mod was to install 250cc Mitsubishi injectors.
I had a dyno run before the injectors and the shop owner told me I better get some bigger ones if I didnt want to grenade the engine. It was going lean at 5000RPM.
I've also converted the suspension to Imp on the front and XT6 on the rear. I have some coil overs to put on soon, but I plan on doing a engine swap at the same time. I'm currently collecting parts for a EJ22T hybrid :twisted:

Image
Image
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This is what happened when I used a cheapo MBC.....full boost.
Image

Previously I had blown a HG on the freeway. Top radiator hose went and it only took seconds to due the job.
Comparing mine to a stock EJ22 isnt fair.
I will and have beat one easily. And once you've gone with boost, you're addicted :twisted:

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Post by Gannon » Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:53 pm

So is that dyno graph wheel hp, or converted flywheel hp?

I had 10psi, a water to air intercooler, a TF034 turbo and free flowing exhaust on my EA82T and never thought it was as high as 135whp, (i guessed it might have been maybe 130 flywheel hp) maybe that spider intake is the key.
I always wanted to dyno it, just for shits and giggles.


Note to Adrian............... see that big silver thing in that engine bay where the spare tyre once sat?
You need one of those! ;)
Current rides: 2016 Mitsubishi Triton GLS & 2004 Forester X
Ongoing Project/Toy: 1987 RX Turbo EA82T, Speeduino ECU, Coil-pack ignition, 440cc Injectors, KONI adjustale front struts, Hybrid L Series/ Liberty AWD 5sp
Past rides: 92 L series turbo converted wagon, 83 Leone GL Sedan, 2004 Liberty GT Sedan & 2001 Outback
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Post by Turbone » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:17 pm

The dyno is whp, estimate about a 25% loss for drivetrain so my bhp should be close to 160, with the torque at 171.
I'm a stubborn cuss and when others cant or have problems getting something right, I take it as a challenge. Most of my buddies think I'm nuts, but give me credit for sticking to it and actually getting decent results.
I occasionally like patting myself on the back too.
I do have years and maybe close to $5000 tied up into it, but that would include the crap used engines I tried working with.
I think I've gone as far as I want to with this platform, thats why I have the EJ22T to work on now. I still like the old school body style and have other new gen stuff I can play with too.
But theres just something about taking a 20yr old car and making it almost as fast and as fun as the newer ones.

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